Well by that logic, I could have avoided the entire incident all together if I had just dealt really slow, got out half as many hands as I actually did. Then I would have been pushed out of that game before this hand ever happened.

Or better yet, I could've tried harder in school, then went to college, then maybe law school, then I wouldn't even BE a dealer!

I think you are being childish defending yourself like that. Let me first say I'm not a dealer so I don't know much about dealing procedures. My thoughts are thus entirely based on the information in your post.
The fact that you stopped chopping the pot after the WHOA tells me that chopping the pot shouldn't have happened in the first place. So isn't it a mistake that you did start to chop? As a player that makes me feel that you did in fact cost somebody half the pot because if you had followed procedure the other player would have tabled his other two cards and won half the pot.
So being proud of not costing somebody half the pot seems to me to be a little out of place.

I think you're missing the point. The title of the thread says it all. This is a low content thread and it's for dealers to talk candidly and casually about their side of the table, much as if it were an actual breakroom.

Now we (dealers) all know that the forum is open to anyone and that non-dealers are going to read the posts, so that's going to temper some of what we say, but for the most part I think this is a pretty fantastic thread and it gives a pretty good glimpse into the mind of a dealer. YTF wasn't bragging about the hand, he was just telling a story, and then he made light of it.

Along those lines, this happened to me last week. I was dealing a 1-2 NLHE game and all of the players were headphone/sunglass types. No social interaction, no preflop raising, no big pots. Just about the last type of table that any dealer ever wants to be a part of. This one guy moves from seat 5 to seat 6, which just became open when a player left the table. And as it happened, seat 6 was due to be a dead button. I deal the cards, and without really thinking about it, I deal around seat 6. There are a couple of folds and calls from other players when seat 6 takes off his headphones, gives me a dirty look, and says, "Hey! Why didn't you deal me in?!?!?!"

I reply that it's a dead button and he can't be dealt into the hand. "But I was in seat 5 and would have been dealt in there and last to act anyhow? What's the difference?"

At this point I realize that I've made a mistake, shrug, and say, "I'm sorry, my bad." He's not having it at all and demands that I call the floor. I do so, and then explain to the floor, "He should have been dealt in, and now we have 3 calls and 2 folds and the action is on this guy."

"Sorry," says the floor, "we have substantial action," and he walks away.

Seat 6 is still fuming as the hand goes on, so I offer an apology. He won't take it and can't believe I made such an egregious mistake. He also accuses me of dealing him out on purpose.

Normally I won't have any discussion at all in these instances, after the floor has already been called, but I take the bait. "Sir, I don't know you. I've never seen you before. I don't know anything about you. Why would I possibly have anything against you?"

"I don't know. Why didn't you deal me in???"

"Sir, I've apologized already. Now I'm apologizing again. I made a mistake. I'll deal you in next hand."

"Well that was a pretty big mistake!"

I didn't ask him what his idea of a little mistake might be for a dealer to make...

I understand that and that's why I usually refrain from posting in this thread. But that doesn't mean you should immediately dismiss any comment a player makes in this thread.

I agree with this. I am very interested in your line of work and have been following this thread from the beginning.

That's ok, and I was just telling how his story came across to me. His reply to that suggested he hadn't even seriously considered what I was trying to say. But shouldn't you as a dealer at least care if a player suggest you may have made a mistake while you thought you handled it great?

In your story you cared enough to apologise and I like that. I was trying to make YTF realise while he saved one player half the pot by shutting up in time he actually lost the other player half the pot because that player was in the action of tabling his complete hand and stopped doing so because of a WHOA that happened because of YTF earlier (small) mistake.

PS: having said all that, the player should of course have tabled his hand properly and we wouldn't have had this discussion.

Hey wait a second .....

I don't think ytf cares about your opinion. Dealers listen to players all day long, I imagine the last thing they want to do is listen to them when they are away from work.

Not to get into the debate sparking this comment, but as player/thread-lurker I truly appreciate seeing the other side of the felt.

I can understand that if I was being a complete jerk about the issue. I have tried however to formulate my opinion in a very decent manner but apparently I failed to do so and in the process stepped on some toes. I am sorry about that and I would be more than happy to accept it if I was wrong about the issue if someone would take the time to explain to me why the way the situation was handled was indeed a 'nice save' as someone said it. Because I still see the part before that 'nice save' as a small mistake that resulted in someone costing half the pot.

One of the reasons I like this thread is because I learn a lot about procedures and see how much effort sometimes needs to be taken to award the pot correctly. It's just that in this instance I don't understand why it seems that people think this was handled well.

The nice save was when YTF refrained from saying "so does he [have the nuts]" and preserving OPTAH.

The "Whoa-Oh" mutterance was made by another player at the table, and not be YTF.

But it was sort of set up by ytf.

I sort of agree with Peter here, but to answer his question, it seems like two different situations.

The first one is as bolt says: if ytf doesn't make a save there, he is the sole reason someone loses half a pot. That would totally be on him.

In the second situation (that happened first, sorry about the reverse numbering) in that story, there are a lot of factors that enter into the situation and while ytf (and the player saying 'woah') may have played a part, the player who was 'cost' the pot had plenty of opportunities to not lose the pot. Read the hand correctly, just table the hand instead of half, etc... The player 'wronged' in that situation has (mostly) himself to blame. He could have fixed the situation, where a violation of OPTAH leaves the 'wronged' player no recourse and isn't the fault of the 'wronged' player in the slightest.

That's the point of telling the story in the first place, isn't it? YTF wasn't bragging about a hand that went beautifully for him as a dealer. He's telling a story about an "oh ****" moment that could have ended a lot worse than it did.

Is this the story you'd rather hear...?

I was at a 1-2 table the other day, and the guy in MP raised preflop to $10. The button and big blind called. Everyone else folded. The board came 47Q rainbow and everyone checked. Another 7 came on the turn and the bb bet $20. The other two players folded. I raked $3 and pulled out $1 for the jackpot. Then I pushed the pot to the bb. The end.

bolt--if that was a reply to me, please look back over the conversation. I was trying to get Peter to see the difference, since he was fixated on the 'one person was almost cost half the pot, but someone else was also (sort of) cost half the pot too'.

I understand the point of ytf's story, you don't have to tell me that. I didn't think I'd have to explain the point of my post to you, especially since you were in the conversation.

Split pot games the pot should always be stacked, with the exception of high-limit games (as defined by the room) where you should not touch the pot at all (except to drag in bets) until after showdown.

Split pot games, when it gets to heads-up, the bets stay in front of the players.

That's how I was taught.

The problem your argument is that it is far fetched to think the player was about to table his hand ... and stopped because a player said "WHOA!" to the dealer who was stacking the pot. THERE IS ZERO reason to believe that player was going to table his hand. Is it possible he was going to do so ... well I suppose its possible...... but we will never have a way to know ..... and my experiences are that players who are planning on tabling there hand generally don't stop because someone says "WHOA!" to the dealer.

I've read this thread from post one. I very rarely post, and it is mostly to congratulate a poster I think highly of for an achievement they made (getting hired ft, benefits, etc.) I'm not a dealer. I try not to comment on the discussion.

However, this is a place where casino personnel are allowed to chat without having to justify themselves to outsiders. We are privileged to be able to have a window inside their world. You can either ruin it by deciding you need as a player to get involved or to remain an observer and learn some things. It may be that you think you aren't doing anything wrong. In this, you should think about your own situation. If what you did was public and any slight fault you made was criticized by others who could actually cause you problems, how free would you be about discussing it. If you are honest, the answer would be you wouldn't be free.

I ask you not to ruin it. If you have such a monster issue with what someone posts here that you have to say something, PM them instead. If you feel the world must know of your objection, make a thread outside of this thread.

Maybe I'm not reading it right but it looks to me YTF literally said the player didn't table his hand because of the WHOA:

One of the reasons I posted was because I wanted to learn some things. I also love this thread and really don't want to ruin it. I also usually refrain from posting because I know I will usually get an answer by just waiting for other posts, but here I felt that wouldn't happen. I was also under the impression that dealers who post here really want to run a clean game and are open for constructive criticism if they happen to slip up. But maybe this wasn't the right place to post it and I should have PM'ed YTF instead.

As I reread it now I see you are right that is what YTF said. It sounds odd to me because its not how things normally go and in Omaha its not uncommon for a player to show 2 and muck the rest to show their bad beat or bad luck or huge draw or whatever.

I hate the string bet rule as it exists.

I hate it when people call string bets. 99.99999% of the time the intention to raise was obvious to people with brains, there was no angling, there was no watching for reactions, someone just makes a procedural error and nitty nit wants a cheaper card. I have seen a string bet called on someone who was trying to angle exactly 0 times in 10 years.

I work in a room where string bets are player called only.

So tonight in 4/8, A bets, B raises to 8 and has 1 dollar behind, C says something to the extent of "Let's get him in there" and puts out 9. I quickly explain to him that he can't make it 9 because A is still in the hand. C puts out the remaining chips to make the raise, and of course the cry of STRIIIIIIIIINGGG goes up from A.

We get the floor over. Situation is explained.

Floor: Intention was clear. Go ahead and make the raise.

I felt like standing up and shaking his hand.

Peter sent me a PM to apologize to me because all you guys chewed him out and made him feel like he shouldn't be criticizing anyone here. He assured me it was nothing personal, and that he only posted because he was just looking for an explanation for why his interpretation was incorrect.

I just typed up my reply to him, but I think you guys should read it, too:

Peter,

Oh, pip pip and tut tut. I certainly appreciate it, but no apology is warranted here. If there is, it is due to you from me, not the other way around, for my smart-ass reply.

Your opinion, as you put it, was:

You just strung together a long series of consecutive events, linked by "ands" and "becauses", that trace their genesis back to an incidental, trivial faux pas by me (stacking bets that don't need to be). It seemed like such a reach to pin the final outcome on me, I replied with a suggestion that you should throw a few more "ands" and "becauses" in there, and you'd see that I stacked the pot because a hurricane was whipping the Gulf coast because a butterfly in China had flapped its wings...

To blame me for "costing someone half a pot" because my premature chip stacking led to a cry from a player which led to another player possibly changing his mind about something, would be like to blame the store owner who hired the irresponsible cashier who carelessly sold the cigarettes to the underage kid who later tossed a lit one out the car window and started a forest fire.

Having said all that: I don't agree with anyone ITT who tried to shout you down. I wish they would have explained it to you this way, instead of threatening you with "Shut up or you'll ruin the thread!"

I've got 13k posts on here, and that's just since the latest software upgrade in '02. I've been posting on this site since Windows95 was the latest and greatest thing. I've had my thoughts/actions criticized before. I can take it. I don't need others to shush my detractors.

What set everyone ITT against you was that the position you took was ultra-nitty. Dealers hate dealing with nits, and the last thing they want to hear in "the breakroom" is someone espousing nitty thoughts.

But again, I appreciate the apology, an apology that I assure you was not nearly necessary. Thanks for taking the time.

I appreciate your reply, YTF. I do have the tendency to be nitty, but I'm working on that.

Now how do we stop those damn butterflies from costing people half pots.

Here was one from a couple of weeks ago.

I watch as a player raises preflop in a $4-$8 limit game .... no problem ..... now all of a sudden another player is complaining......

"He can't do that!"

"Can't do what?"

"Thats a string he did this ...." And he shows me taking one hand forward dropping out $4 then bringing it back and coming out with his other hand and dropping $4 more.

"thats not what he did"

"I am positive thats what he did"

So now I start thinking back trying to remember if maybe I missed something but I'm drawing a blank. I know if he did it that way I would not allow it but I can't recall how he did bet.

Then it dawns on me and I look at the complaining player and say .... "You know how I'm sure thats not what he did."

"Thats exactly what he did."

"He missed his blinds and had posted them this hand so the first $4 was already out there before the hand was dealt ... thats how I know he didn;t do it like you say."

Kid doesn't say another the whole down.

We have a brush who's been working for 2 or 3 months. Very nice girl, but just doesn't get it. She came to my table the other day asking if anyone would like to transfer to the game at table 11.

"Britney*," I said, "this is table 11."

*not her real name

Wheverer someone posts, I always have to police that we don't have two sections of the table betting at once because two people think they are under the gun.

I wouldn't call it an angle exactly, but I saw this go down from the other perspective the other day. 1/2 nl game HU on the turn. Board has 3 clubs. Player A bets 10, player B grabs chips and starts cutting them out and puts in 19, reaches back to grab 1 more and player A can't call string fast enough. Player B has put in more than half of a raise though so I say he's committed to the minimum raise of 20. Player A makes a huge deal and makes me call the floor who of course says the raise stands. He makes a huge production out of this, thoroughly angering Playe B, hems and haws complaining the whole time and finally reluctantly calls. River card is a blank, A checks, pissed off player B shoves, A insta-calls and rolls over the nut flush.

Interesting tactic. Not sure what to make of it. Player A is a savvy player who clearly knows the rules. I don't really mind the play, but making me drag the floor over to make an obvious ruling isn't cool.

This is the very reason that I hate having a Mississippi straddle at lower limit tables.

Me: Wait! The action isn't here, it's over here!

2/3 of Table: Stares with blank looks on their faces.