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Old 08-10-2018, 03:51 AM   #13776
Riverine
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Re: The Breakroom: low-content gaming employee chatter thread. See posting restrictions in Post

I don't think we can or should hold ourselves responsible for how a player interprets an innocent gesture by a dealer. Though I have found that in tournaments and when there are large pots in cash games I sort of make a point to leave my forearms and hands on the table alongside the well and try not to fidget or tap my fingers or anything. And I don't make eye contact with the tanking player. I just sort of look down in the direction of his hands so I can see when he makes an action.
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Old 08-10-2018, 12:08 PM   #13777
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Re: The Breakroom: low-content gaming employee chatter thread. See posting restrictions in Post

"When I face a big decision, I look over to the box to see if the dealer's still breathing. If so, I take that to mean I should stop and think."

Sounds like you did nothing wrong; any effort spent on trying to reduce "dealer tells" would be -EV because of the cognitive load from worrying about it. (As always, just my non-dealer opinion....)
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Old 08-10-2018, 12:27 PM   #13778
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Re: The Breakroom: low-content gaming employee chatter thread. See posting restrictions in Post

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"When I face a big decision, I look over to the box to see if the dealer's still breathing. If so, I take that to mean I should stop and think."

Sounds like you did nothing wrong; any effort spent on trying to reduce "dealer tells" would be -EV because of the cognitive load from worrying about it. (As always, just my non-dealer opinion....)
I want to increase players who rely on tells from me .... Because the tell I try to give off is "just ****ing act already!"
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Old 08-10-2018, 02:20 PM   #13779
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Re: The Breakroom: low-content gaming employee chatter thread. See posting restrictions in Post

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... when there are large pots in cash games I sort of make a point to leave my forearms and hands on the table alongside the well and try not to fidget or tap my fingers or anything. And I don't make eye contact with the tanking player. I just sort of look down in the direction of his hands so I can see when he makes an action.
That is what I do instinctively as an untrained non-casino dealer. Always conscious of the need to avoid influencing the action.
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Old 08-10-2018, 02:26 PM   #13780
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any player can see any action I take - scratching my nose because it had an itch - and attribute it to any meaning they want.
I'm sure NYCN is referring to the GOAT poker/cheating scene. Just in case any of you Youngs don't know it:

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Old 08-10-2018, 02:57 PM   #13781
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Re: The Breakroom: low-content gaming employee chatter thread. See posting restrictions in Post

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I'm sure NYCN is referring to the GOAT poker/cheating scene. Just in case any of you Youngs don't know it:

Haha, I knew that if anyone caught that it would be you!
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Old 08-10-2018, 03:08 PM   #13782
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II sort of make a point to leave my forearms and hands on the table alongside the well and try not to fidget or tap my fingers or anything. And I don't make eye contact with the tanking player. I just sort of look down in the direction of his hands so I can see when he makes an action.
I usually follow this advice and I never made eye-contact with the player (I don't remember the hand at all but I just don't do that; I stare at the player's hands or chips when they tank) however I might very well have went from sitting upright to slacking and resting my head in my hand. In my defense they have been working us hard this tournament - in six days I had almost 80 hours and my shortest shift was still almost 11 hours - so I was fatigued and let my guard down.

I appreciate the responses. I'll try and do better in the future even when I am tired.
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Old 08-11-2018, 10:57 PM   #13783
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Re: The Breakroom: low-content gaming employee chatter thread. See posting restrictions in Post

How would you all handle this situation?

Since I'm new to dealing I've noticed I've let things "slide" here and there. I've been wanting to get more strict about the rules for the integrity of the game and so I dont look like a dealer who can get walked over.

Anyways somebody made a raise to 8$, folds to another player who puts out 17$ (3 $5 chips and 2 $1 chips) over the betting line and keeps fumbling with them. Picking 1 or 2 of them up and putting them back down. He finally says "it's just a call". He thought he had 3 whites in his stack so I guess he was looking for the other white but didnt have it.

It wasn't a quick drop of too many chips and pulled back or I'd probably just tell him to be more careful. It was like 10 seconds of him putting out too many chips and messing with them looking for a 1$ chip. So I held him to a raise. Of course he wasn't happy. He won the hand and was still not happy.

The floor told me he would just warn him and if it happens again he would hold him to it. I understand sometimes people drop too many chips by accident sometimes and pull them back. But since he was messing with them for so long over the betting line and it wasn't all one motion I didnt know how to handle it. A few players said I was right he cant do that and 1 or 2 others said I was wrong.
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Old 08-11-2018, 11:00 PM   #13784
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Re: The Breakroom: low-content gaming employee chatter thread. See posting restrictions in Post

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How would you all handle this situation?

Since I'm new to dealing I've noticed I've let things "slide" here and there. I've been wanting to get more strict about the rules for the integrity of the game and so I dont look like a dealer who can get walked over.

Anyways somebody made a raise to 8$, folds to another player who puts out 17$ (3 $5 chips and 2 $1 chips) over the betting line and keeps fumbling with them. Picking 1 or 2 of them up and putting them back down. He finally says "it's just a call". He thought he had 3 whites in his stack so I guess he was looking for the other white but didnt have it.

It wasn't a quick drop of too many chips and pulled back or I'd probably just tell him to be more careful. It was like 10 seconds of him putting out too many chips and messing with them looking for a 1$ chip. So I held him to a raise. Of course he wasn't happy. He won the hand and was still not happy.

The floor told me he would just warn him and if it happens again he would hold him to it. I understand sometimes people drop too many chips by accident sometimes and pull them back. But since he was messing with them for so long over the betting line and it wasn't all one motion I didnt know how to handle it. A few players said I was right he cant do that and 1 or 2 others said I was wrong.
Do it the way your floor says.....
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Old 08-11-2018, 11:54 PM   #13785
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Do it the way your floor says.....
The floor guy was a table games pit boss just filling in for an hour so I don't know if he exactly understands the rules. He was a part of my audition and I think I landed the job because he was so lost on certain situations and I walked him through it. Doesnt seem like the best guy to ask.

And no he wasn't acting stupid during the audition because even my boss was correcting him at times instead of just having me do it
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Old 08-12-2018, 03:50 AM   #13786
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Re: The Breakroom: low-content gaming employee chatter thread. See posting restrictions in Post

Then find a supervisor who DOES know the room's rules, and ask him. Sorry we can't be much help, but "betting line" is room-dependent.

If your room doesnt have a supervisor who knows the rules...then it really doesn't matter how you rule this, does it?
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Old 08-12-2018, 03:52 AM   #13787
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Re: The Breakroom: low-content gaming employee chatter thread. See posting restrictions in Post

PLAYER: (approaches my table mid-hand) Is this table 11?

YTF: No sir, this is table 15. Table 11 is right behind you.

PLAYER: Where is table 10?

YTF: You're looking for 10???

PLAYER: Yes.

YTF: You guys are just ****ing with me now, right?

(No, I didn't say that last line out loud. Grrrrrr.....)
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Old 08-12-2018, 03:56 AM   #13788
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Re: The Breakroom: low-content gaming employee chatter thread. See posting restrictions in Post

UTG raises. Gets one caller, the BB. I pull in the bets, start to peel a flop, when suddenly the SB moves the button as if we're on to the next hand already.

I just freeze, and wordlessly stare at him.

He figures it out, and sheepishly puts the button back where it belongs.

"WTF is that?", blurts a player.

"That," I sighed, "is my life."
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Old 08-12-2018, 02:19 PM   #13789
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Re: The Breakroom: low-content gaming employee chatter thread. See posting restrictions in Post

Any tips / mental shortcuts for calculating and keeping track of pot size and bet amounts for a pot limit game? I was very good at math when I was younger but some of that has faded over the past 30 years.

BTW, I know the formula, I'm just asking about tips or tricks or mental shortcuts or....well if I knew, I wouldn't be asking
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Old 08-12-2018, 04:21 PM   #13790
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Re: The Breakroom: low-content gaming employee chatter thread. See posting restrictions in Post

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Any tips / mental shortcuts for calculating and keeping track of pot size and bet amounts for a pot limit game? I was very good at math when I was younger but some of that has faded over the past 30 years.

BTW, I know the formula, I'm just asking about tips or tricks or mental shortcuts or....well if I knew, I wouldn't be asking

Instead of multiplying the bet by 3 and adding the trail it's easier to count the bet plus all of the calls, add 2, and multiply that number.

In other words.... there's $120 in the pot from preflop betting. You put out the flop and the first bettor makes it $65. 3 players call behind him. The next player says "pot". You've likely been taught to multiply 65 x 3. Then add 65 three more times. Then add the $120 from the previous round of betting.

The easier way is to count that there are 4 bets of 65. Add 2. Now you've got 65 x 6. And add 120. Same result.
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Old 08-12-2018, 04:50 PM   #13791
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Re: The Breakroom: low-content gaming employee chatter thread. See posting restrictions in Post

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Any tips / mental shortcuts for calculating and keeping track of pot size and bet amounts for a pot limit game? I was very good at math when I was younger but some of that has faded over the past 30 years.

BTW, I know the formula, I'm just asking about tips or tricks or mental shortcuts or....well if I knew, I wouldn't be asking
I never really got formal training for this so forgive me if this is obvious stuff but something that wasn't immediately apparent to me is this:

blinds £1/2, utg pot to £7, utg+1 repot £24. 3 callers. next player repots.

to work this out here is my thought process

You basically keep a running tally in your head of how many times you need to multiply the current bet. What I mean by this as that as soon as I calculate that utg+1s raise is £24, I also keep the number 3 in my head.

This way I know that if utg+2 repots then I need to multiply the current bet by 3. In this instance though that player calls, so I increase this running tally to 4. The next 2 players also call, so as each player calls I mentally note 4, 5, 6 as they throw their calls in. This way as soon as a player announces pot I immediately know that I need to multiply the 24 by 6 (plus add the £7 and the blinds) = £154.

This method is essentially getting the hard part out of the way quickly (the multiplication of sometimes awkward numbers) but it works with smaller numbers just as well. You're always better off proactively keeping track of everything so you don't get caught off guard and are less likely to make mistakes. But you can do this method as well if you weren't paying attention;

So if you didn't keep the running count in your head and find yourself in a "Oh ****, he just announced pot and I haven't been paying attention" moment just do this:

Immediately look to the previous bet (£24) and note (3) in your head, and then add 1 to this number for each other £24. (4,5,6) So again we know to multiply the 24 by 6. (remember to add the blinds and the 7). We just basically went backwards from the way we did it initially, but its the same idea.

This is probably better explained in person with chips to demonstrate, but hopefully you get the gist of what I'm saying.

EDIT: bolt2112 got in there first, basically the same thing I was saying, slightly different method.
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Old 08-12-2018, 05:08 PM   #13792
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Re: The Breakroom: low-content gaming employee chatter thread. See posting restrictions in Post

Here is a plo tip ..... When you see a pot getting some action .... Take a look at the stacks of the active players so you have an idea when you can just say " all in" and stop worrying about the math.....
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Old 08-12-2018, 05:22 PM   #13793
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Re: The Breakroom: low-content gaming employee chatter thread. See posting restrictions in Post

The other best tip for PLO calculating I can offer is, do not be prepared to give an immediate answer when someone says "pot".

There's $120 in the pot from preflop action. Player A bets $30. Player B calls $30 with 2 green chips. Player C raises to $85. Player D calls $85 with 1 black chip. And now player E is getting ready to act. Do I really want to be anticipating what the pot will be just in case he's ready to bet aggressively?

I'm keeping track of the $120 from preflop betting that's already locked in, right in front of me. I'm keeping track of A & B who are both in for $30. I'm keeping track of C & D who are both in for $85. The last thing I need to do is clutter up my brain doing math and sticking another number on top of everything else that I might not end up needing & can only get in the way of my focus.

And if E does end up saying "pot" it really won't take me more than a few seconds to calculate (85 x 4) + (30 x 2) + 120. As long as the players know that you're on your game they generally won't mind the extra 2 or 3 seconds it takes you to come up with the right answer.
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Old 08-12-2018, 05:48 PM   #13794
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Re: The Breakroom: low-content gaming employee chatter thread. See posting restrictions in Post

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The other best tip for PLO calculating I can offer is, do not be prepared to give an immediate answer when someone says "pot".

There's $120 in the pot from preflop action. Player A bets $30. Player B calls $30 with 2 green chips. Player C raises to $85. Player D calls $85 with 1 black chip. And now player E is getting ready to act. Do I really want to be anticipating what the pot will be just in case he's ready to bet aggressively?

I'm keeping track of the $120 from preflop betting that's already locked in, right in front of me. I'm keeping track of A & B who are both in for $30. I'm keeping track of C & D who are both in for $85. The last thing I need to do is clutter up my brain doing math and sticking another number on top of everything else that I might not end up needing & can only get in the way of my focus.

And if E does end up saying "pot" it really won't take me more than a few seconds to calculate (85 x 4) + (30 x 2) + 120. As long as the players know that you're on your game they generally won't mind the extra 2 or 3 seconds it takes you to come up with the right answer.
Sure, sometimes it's going to be a waste of time keeping track. Knowing when and when not to do it is going to come with experience. The game I deal plays very aggressively so more often than not I'm keeping track in my head, mainly preflop.
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Old 08-12-2018, 07:22 PM   #13795
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Re: The Breakroom: low-content gaming employee chatter thread. See posting restrictions in Post

One thing that helped me was on bets that end in 5, like 35 or 45, is to divide the number of bets by two and double the bet amount. .for example, instead of saying (6 times 35) I say (3 times 70). For me, it's just a lot quicker to see that 3*70 is 210 than 6*35.
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Old 08-12-2018, 09:13 PM   #13796
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Re: The Breakroom: low-content gaming employee chatter thread. See posting restrictions in Post

As others have said...

35 x 6 = 70 x 3 = 210

Additionally if you deal small stakes...

98 x 4 = (100-2)x4 = 100x4 - 2x4 = 400-8= 392

I often will say the math out loud as Iím doing it so that the players know Iím doing something and not confused. Sometimes they wonít care and try to scream over you anyway
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Old 08-12-2018, 10:15 PM   #13797
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Re: The Breakroom: low-content gaming employee chatter thread. See posting restrictions in Post

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Here is a plo tip ..
Is that a pun?

Here's a PRO tip: don't work in a room that spreads PLO.
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Old 08-13-2018, 12:51 AM   #13798
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I'm sure there are mental arithmetic tips you can Google for, irrespective of poker. I'd say to focus on learning the multiplication tables for the key numbers that recur often in whatever game you're dealing.

My local game is $1-3, precise pot preflop, round up to nearest $5 post. Sometimes there's a straddle to $6, $10, or occasionally something in between. It's a very loose game. So in that structure you should know the first few cold: no straddle, it's $10, $13, $16 depending on number of limpers. Then know your multiples of three up to around 30, and multiples of 6 up to 60 because of the straddles. Don't worry about folded blinds because it's easy to add $1 or $4. Beyond that, when it gets to $41, call, call, pot (to $205 plus dead money), don't worry much. No one expects you to know the 41 times table in your head.

But in a different structure, say $1-2 with a $5 limp, you'd need to know cold: $15 to open, $20, $25, etc... and just be good at your multiples of 5.
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Old 08-13-2018, 01:59 AM   #13799
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Re: The Breakroom: low-content gaming employee chatter thread. See posting restrictions in Post

When the pot is an odd amount like $163 I'll leave 3 white chips under the pot to remind myself. It's easier for me to keep $160 stored in my head.

I do like to have a pot number ready in my head before anyone calls it when the action is slow enough for me to do so. First because it makes me happy when I get to use that number. Second because it cuts off any confusion that can result from someone calling or raising before I can correct an over-bet. Third because it's extra practice doing the calculation which I need because I only get to deal PLO maybe 4-5 times a week.

In the end it's really about practice. The one thing that helped me the most was doing pot calculations over and over again in my head during easy $1-2 downs. The more times you do the same math problem the easier it becomes.
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Old 08-13-2018, 03:26 AM   #13800
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Re: The Breakroom: low-content gaming employee chatter thread. See posting restrictions in Post

"Antes, please."

I stick the deck into the machine and pull out a new deck while they ante. Out of the corner of my eye, I see a player on my right quickly moving chips, and a flash of yellow. I presume someone anted a yellow T1000 chip, and he was making change for it.

I'm done with the machine, time to pull in the antes. The antes to my left are correct, so I pull them in. I look to my right, and one player has yet to ante. Before I can ask her to ante, the player next to her (who has been so uncomfortable with the slightest pause in the action that he is constantly pointing at tanking players to alert them that it's their turn) is instructing her to ante.

"I already did," she states.

Now the players on either side of her are tag-teaming her. "No, you didn't," they tell her. "You put out a yellow chip, and he made change for it, but now you have to pay an ante with the change he gave you."

"No," she insisted. "I put out the yellow for my blind, but I put three greens in for my ante," pointing to a barren spot on the felt where her ante is supposed to be.

They again tell her that obviously she did not, because there are no chips where she is pointing.

She then deduces that the dealer must've taken them.

I assure her that I haven't pulled in ANY antes from her end of the table. All the players at her end still have an ante posted in front of them, except her.

"But I *JUST* put in three green chips! I know it!", staring at me, waiting for me to admit that I took them.

"I don't have them," I assured her. I quickly sold out the guy who made change. "Maybe that quick-change artist took them?" But he HAS no green chips. Zero.

Only one other possibility: she anted LAST hand, and didn't notice it was a blind-steal and that we're onto the next hand already--but before I can float this possibility, she vents, "This is the DEALER'S responsibility!"

OK, I'm done. I tried to be sympathetic--I was the only one at the table trying to help her, and not barking orders at her--but she lost me at that point. I was about to call the floor and let him worry about this in my place, but she was finally persuaded to just throw in a $.75 ante and get the game moving again.

But she was not finished. She admonished the change-maker, instructing him not to make change for her any more.

Now HE wants to make a mountain out of this. "I've NEVER been told to not make change!" He said that 2-3 times, as if the populace was going to rise up and take up his cause. But he just got crickets. So he called on me, by name. "You ever heard of that, YTF?"

I suggested that he may be better served to keep his hands off of other people's money...but I knew I was wasting my breath. It didn't fit his narrative, so he was able to ignore it completely.
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