I doubt anyone's advocating that. Maybe a bit of "reduction to absurdity" there?

I (as a non-dealer) would be surprised if the dealer didn't announce "All in," and/or toss out an All in button as appropriate. If the guy mucks so fast the dealer can't get the announcement out, or if he doesn't bother to figure out how much the all-in bet is for, fine, he's playing like a dunce and has no recourse. If he's normal, he asks how much the bet is.


In general I think it's good policy for the dealer to say something when true action varies drastically from what's visually obvious. If a player throws out a $5 chip preflop in a 1-3 game, there's no need for an announcement. If she throws out a $25 or $100, it's probably good to say "Call 3." I suppose this may not be appreciated at higher stakes but IMO should be.

How would you handle this in NL Holdem if a player said "Bet $2300" but you thought he likely only had about $100 behind? I'd say do the same here.

If you're 100% sure. What if there was a 500 chip in the stack? Closer to a half pot bet.
At what point should the dealer correct/count bets if the opponent doesn't ask or even seem interested?

Sure, but that's not what we're talking about here.

If he had one black chip I would correct him.

If it looks like about 100 in red but it's possible there's a couple of bigger chips, I wait for the "Call" or "How much?" to count him down.

Chips should be visible to everyone on the table. Period.


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Everyone has to keep their hands on the rail?

People keep their hands in front of their cards all the time.
When asked, they lift their hands. If the other players don't ask I'm not gonna.

There is a difference between the situation where the chips are bet and when they aren't bet. Here they were bet .. make sure the bet is visible.

Even if his opponent isn't asking, isn't looking for chips, doesn't seem the least bit curious...?

If I'm 100% certain he is short I will make sure that fact is known.

But if he has a stack and it's possible he has a big chip or two and may have close to what he is betting... I'm gonna let the other player decide if he wants a count.

If I was dealing, I'd be aware that the guy has less than 2300 going into the river, that way when he inevitably says pot like so many of those clowns do rather than just knowing the bet themselves, I'll be ready to announce all-in and throw the button out. Now it's on the other player to ask for a count if needed, but really I don't see why he shouldn't know his opponent's stack himself going into the river.

Oh I see, I don't keep track of players stack sizes while dealing.
What if you are wrong in your estimation of his stack size?

And if he doesn't think this is important and doesn't ask, should the dealer get involved?

I don't know it down to a tee either, but when they are betting on either the flop or the turn, I pay attention to where each player is at so I will know whether they have a full pot-size bet or not on the next street. I don't think I will get an estimation wrong if a guy has ~100 in red and pot is 2300.

I agree that it's bad if the dealer speaks up when the guy is about to muck and says "it's only 100, not 2300", that's terrible dealing imo and clearly influencing action. A good dealer would know the guy doesn't have 2300 and announce all-in or all-in for less and throw out the button as soon as the guy says pot.

That's just in my room though. In other rooms dealers may be trained to not speak unless spoken to, in which case they should be aware of all these things, but not bring them to anyone's attention as it is ultimately each player's responsibility to also be aware of all these things. It varies based on how each house trains their dealers imo.

For the record, I'm with Steam on this. A player is allowed to announce "pot", even when he doesn't have that much to bet. Don't blame the dealer, blame the stupid rule.

Keeping your hands in front of your cards or your chips used to be a big no-no. It's not, any more. It used to be rare to see it--now, you can't NOT see it. It's the way the game is played now. I don't like it, not one bit, but I can't change the world for you.

I rarely play big-bet poker any more, but when I do, I don't stand for this. I won't ask my opponent to lift his hands in a respectful tone that suggests that it's I who is imposing upon him. I'll use my "you're being rude" voice and tell him, "I can't see your chips, sir."

I can't imagine expecting the dealer to this FOR me. The poor man would be so busy with this, he'd never get a card out!

Are you a dealer?

(EDIT TO ADD: I now see from the post before this one, that yes, he is. the rest of this is going to sound condescending and stupid now, my stipulation at the end not withstanding--but I'll leave it here, hoping it might help the non-dealers reading the thread.)

I am.

I'm focused on a lot of things at once. I need to keep track of whose turn it is; how much is in the pot; that each bet put into the pot is correct; is the boardman aware I have an empty seat; etc. Usually, I don't even get to read the board cards before the showdown.

If you're not a dealer, you might be fooled by how easy this looks, as all this thinking doesn't meet the eye. It looks like we're just sitting there, waiting for you guys to finish betting the turn, so we don't miss our cue to put out the river card. If you imagine that's what we're doing, you might also imagine we would be watching this hand like you watch poker on tv: wondering how this is going to play out, will he c-bet this flop?, etc. And of course, to do this, we would need to take into consideration the board cards, stack sizes, players' images, etc.

Again, I *am* a dealer. I've got way too much mental juggling going on, to be spending my time diving that deep (effective stack sizes) into the play of a hand. And even if I *did* have that sort of time, I don't give a ****! I see 100's of hands per week, this is just another one, it means nothing to me. I don't care if someone makes a good play or a bad play, I'm not there to judge this like it's gymnastics or boxing. Outside of "which of these guys is a good/bad tipper?", I don't give a single **** about this hand.

If I had to toss an all-in button, I would. In my room, I don't, except in tournaments, where we follow TDA rules. If this were a PLO tourney, then yes, every time every player said the word pot, I would pick up the all-in button, poised to throw it, and ask, "Are you all-in?" I would do what most of the folks ITT think should've been done here.

But short of being tasked with marking all-ins, it's not my job.

(Now, if the guy I quoted above *IS* a dealer, I would wonder how strictly he's paying attention to all the things I mentioned, if he's spending his time keeping track of everybody's unbet stacks. Sure, he *could* be the greatest dealer in the history of poker, able to do it all without breaking a sweat....but I haven't met too many of those guys.)

The rules about announcing "pot" are different in a PLO cash game than in a PLO tournament? That sounds ridiculous; is that the case in all/most cardrooms?

I think he's saying that in cash games they don't toss "All-In" buttons, but in tourneys they do, not anything about rules announcing "pot."

In my room it's policy to put out an all in button so if I'm not sure if he is all in or not ... I'm going to find out.....

But even if it isn't. If a player announced a bet and doesn't move the chips out .... I think it's at least minimally necessary to make sure the bet is visible. If you looked over and saw his hands out of the way but also noticed he had a large chip hidden behind his stack ... Wouldn't you ask him to make it visible? So why not ask him to make his whole bet visible.

Even if the other player could care less? He isn't looking, isn't asking, he's only looking sadly at his cards before folding...

You pointing out that his opponent is short stacked could encourage a call.

I don't think the dealer should be affecting the play.

I'm not going to make a big production of it. Just a signal to the player to move his hands should get it done.

But actually in pot limit when a player annouces pot it's the dealers obligation to announce the bet amount. If the player doesn't have $2300 the bet isn't $2300 so I am going to announce all in. So i need to see it. And if it's not clear to me I will announce $2300 or all in.

If the other player shows any interest in continuing the hand I'm with you 100%.

But if he hasn't even noticed that the bettor hasn't pushed out any chips and isn't even looking that direction...I'll wait to see if I need to sort out the bet.

As a punter, I understand there's a need for exactness in procedure. I also understand that dealers answer to their bosses, not the players. But in the example given, I think most all of us agree that there was (at a minimum) some level of angleshooting with the "Pot" announcement. There was also quite likely a deliberate rule violation in hiding his chip stack (or lack thereof).

So if, again as a punter, my dealers want to find enough grey area in this spot to de-angle the shot, I heartily applaud them. For the most part, nothing flusters me at the table, but angleshooters can **** right off.

"All in for less"

Last full paycheque with poker tips (we pool with pits so can't make any assumptions yet): higher than last one (when death of poker was announced) lower than the last few before that. Nobody is jumping out windows yet but the last few dailies haven't been great. Weather? Coincidence? Time will tell.

I am a dealer. And yes I do keep track of effective stack sizes. And yes I do try my best to put players on ranges throughout the hand. If I didn't, my job would be so damn boring. I don't think I'm the greatest dealer in the history of poker like you said. I know I don't have a great personality, and I also know there are dealers that are faster than me. But following action and logging someone out of Bravo (or asking them "want me to hold your seat?" when they are leaving and you are unsure if they are coming back) is not as hard of a task as you make it out to be. I was a player before I was a dealer. And I am still am a player, using work to help my game as much as possible. It's not as hard as you make it out to be to the "non-dealers" you are hoping to help out by ripping me. After dealing craps for almost two years, dealing poker is child's play. I can only assume you have never dealt craps if you think following action, doing simple addition to keep track of the pot in a game where everyone tanks excessively, and logging someone out of Bravo when they leave are difficult tasks.

You are correct: I have never dealt craps. I'm certain I'd be terrible at it, for the reasons you state. And I'm confident that yes, after doing that, dealing poker is probably a breeze.

CLIFF NOTES: LOL me. Again.

(In my defense, I'm in a state that doesn't have NL cash games, and LHE is not "a game where everyone tanks excessively", but rather a game where idiots would rather look at their phones and act out of turn, rather than pay attention; splash the pot 100x more often than NL players, especially splashing into the bet next to theirs; need help reading their hands; etc. These things, and more, at least quadruple my workload. When I push into a tournament table, the only NL tables we have, I view those downs as a chance to catch my breath. If that was all I did all day, I probably would have come into this discussion sharing your perspective.)

EDIT TO ADD: This post was way too mealy-mouthed to be called an apology. Let me try again:

My post last post was far too smug, condescending, and just plain ill-advised and stupid. I deeply regret my error in judgment, and will strive to do better in the future.

Please don’t


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Make sure my TD and I aren't on crack please.

Button in 1. Seats 2 and 3 bust out on the hand. Seats 2 and 3 filled by players from broken game prior to next hand.

Button now on 2. 3 is small. 4 is Big. There is no "can't assume small blind or button" shenanigans. All players are dealt in.

Is this all correct?