Is there anyone here with experience working in the Seattle area? I'm considering a move and have some questions.

It is neither a basic rule nor etiquette. May be a rule and or etiquette where you play but historically not a common rule nor etiquette in general.

Different perspective: I had time to kill yesterday, and jumped into a $2-4 LHE game. Entire table is typical LL tight-passive. One guy is playing LAG and is, of course, winning a lot of pots. The regs are hating it when he takes bottom pair+gutshot to the end and hits something. They see every one of these catches as an injustice (when he makes bottom trips on the end to win, the regs don't notice the many other outs he had, and think he was betting all the way with a two-outer).

I finally get to play a hand with this guy. He raises in MP, only the blinds call him. I'm in the BB with TT, flop comes KTx. I wait till the turn to raise him. He three-bets with what turns out to be a flush draw and straight draw. I four-bet.

It was like someone dragged the needle across the record. No one three bets in this game, because everyone here needs the nuts to raise, let alone reraise. All conversation stopped when I four-bet. This might have been the first four-bet-on-the-turn at this table in a month.

Dude called. He hit on the river. C'est la vie. I can see he had 1000 outs. The best I could have had was a set, and almost every single one of his outs would beat that. I'm not remotely upset. Genuinely. It's a GAME, and games have winners and losers, and I know I'm not going to win every game I play for the rest of my life. I sincerely congratulate him with a "Nice hand," no sarcasm, and that's it. I'm not biting my lip, my pulse isn't quickening. I've already forgotten about before the dealer has gathered the cards for the next hand. If anything, I was happy for the guy. It was fun to play a big pot.

But two of the regs who were not in the hand are BESIDE THEMSELVES over this. They tear into this guy. "You had NOTHING on the turn! And you called four bets!"

It made me so sad.

So two young tourists sit down at the $1-$2 game I'm dealing. They both have those giant frozen mixed drinks that come with a sling to carry them. I notice that one of the kids has some writing on his hand, I take a closer look and its the name of one of our hotel towers with a room number ....

So I look at him and ask .... "Did you label yourself so we know where to return you to later?"

He tells me "Yes .... Its happened before....."

Beautiful. I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.

That is standard for me. Especially first night in Vegas before I've gone to my room multiple times.

Last night I'm dealing and this guy and girl are involved in a hand. The girl seems to think they have made friends with each other at the table due to their light and casual conversation thus far.

They get involved in a hand and it's a decently sized pot. The guy tells the girl, "I flopped a set of jacks, save your money. Fold. I'm being nice. Don't wanna take your money honey."

So the girl, who has top pair, is saying "Oh you're being nice, I gotcha. Okay. Thanks babe." and she open folds top pair.

The guy goes to muck his hand, but it accidentally flips over as it hits the table and it shows 7 high.

The girl starts SCREAMING and YELLING "Are you kidding me?? You low life scumbag" etc. etc. cursing him out and then looks at me and starts yelling at me.

I kid you not, she says to me "HE'S ALLOWED TO BLUFF BUT HE'S NOT ALLOWED TO LIE. DO SOMETHING!! HOW IS IT OKAY FOR HIM TO LIE ABOUT HIS HAND??"

I'm looking at her confused as hell, thinking to myself, did she just hear the words that came out of her mouth? You can bluff, but you can't lie?? What in the hell...?

The guy that was in the hand is just as confused. Saying to her, "this is poker hun. it's called bluffing."

Again, she goes with the "You can BLUFF but you can't LIE!" and she's getting worked up to tears now saying he made her fold the best hand. She's whimpering and sniffling with tears running down her face. Then she starts to get red in the face, upset and angry.

The entire table is now laughing at her. This just escalates the situation and makes it even worse.

Never in my life have I seen something like that. She's crying because she got talked into folding the best hand in a heads-up pot.

Nuts, right?

lol women am i right

^ Sounds to me like that guy was a serious douchebag. If I were at the table I would be defending her and mocking him for winning in a non-sporting way. I can't imagine others laughing at her unless it was a table full of douchebags.

Well I wouldn't mock him for what he did because I don't see anything wrong with it. But it brought her to tears it's not funny and no one should be mocking her to make her cry. (No I do not think she should be crying over it and I think it reflects poorly on her but what value is there to pushing her over the ledge).

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She wasn't crying because she was being mocked. She was crying because she seemed very unstable, Nobody was mocking her.

Everyone was confused up until they realized (I'm guessing) that she was just throwing a temper tantrum over getting table-talked into folding.

This begs the question, does bluffing equate to lying?

Of course that behavior isn't really against the rules, but I think it is unsportsman like and could be considered an angle. I certainly would never do it, but I would never tell someone to fold and say anything honest about my hand either.

After she left, this actually sparked a debate about whether the guy broke a rule or not.

I told the guy that I know that in the WSOP rules, you can't talk about the hand unless it is heads up. And even then, you are not allowed to talk about the contents of your or your opponent's hand.

So, in the WSOP, he was clearly breaking a rule.

But, this was a cash game. So, did he break a rule? I guess it's room-dependent.


All that aside, when a guy raises pre-flop and says "I've got aces", that means you're supposed to believe him? Lol...

I don't think it's unsportsmanlike because the nature of the game is deception about the strength of your hand. But I agree I wouldn't do it myself because it's not my style to talk about my hand and certainly not to let anyone off the hook.

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I think it's a scummy move. Lying about your hand is one thing, but doing it in that way seems different. Either way, lol at getting that upset about it. Just consider it a life lesson, mark the guy as a scumbag, and move on.

"Speech Play" as Kassouf would say lmaooo

My favorite line is "I have a degree in physcology and I use it every night!"

Of course, bluffing is a form of lying, but it is sanctioned as an integral part of the game (and one of the things which sets poker apart from other games).
Lying verbally about your hand is not the same thing as bluffing by betting (or body language, etc.). However, traditionally, in American poker (I think it was/is different in Britain), you have always been allowed to talk about your hand (years ago, multi-way, more recently HU only). You certainly were allowed to lie (or to tell the truth), and it was understood that the listener had to make up his mind which (or ignore you entirely). Caveat emptor!
But today, with tournaments and lots of inexperienced new players (and rooms, dealers and floors), there is apparently a lot of confusion out there. So, he probably didn't break a rule, but yes, it is (regrettably) room-dependent.
Having said that, I do think that it's kind of scummy to trick someone into thinking you're making friends and playing a nice social game, when you're actually playing for blood.

Why would anyone believe someone who says .... I am going to be nice to you and tell you my hand? If they were doing it to be nice they would show the hand ... by not showing but telling them the hand they are inherently suggesting that what they say may or may not be true.

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So you know what feels good, on the last hand of the night?

Putting out a board of 5 2 J J A, and watching two players put in 35 bets.

At around 14 or 15 bets, the push arrived. I hear behind me, "Next hand, YTF."

"There ain't gonna BE a 'next hand'," I assured him. And I was correct, of course.

When they got to around 22, the floor arrived, and asked why I had pushed the button to summon him. "Thought you'd want to see this," motioning to the cartoonish scene on the felt.

I've never really played limit, only as part of the 8-game mix online, it must be a strange situation with the 2nd nuts on the river and your opponent keeps raising. You know theres a possibility the opponent has the nuts but calling with the best hand is a disaster.

there are some opponents i won't 4 bet with 2nd nuts. there are some i won't stop before 8. i can't think of any i would go 35 with.

I'm presuming the "no next hand" means they are going to spend forever confirming things to pay out the Bad beat jackpot, so in that case I'd go all the way to be safe.

At a certain point can't they just both agree to go all in and save everyone time? In my room, limit games are held to 3 raises, even when it's heads up.

I've been on the losing end of quads over quads (no jackpot in the room) there was a sad moment six bets on on the river where I knew I was beat and would only just call. No sense giving away money on the off chance my opponent misread the hand or thinks the high end of the boat is good.

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