Then just have them push the chips forward. No need to mingle them with others to make it clear he has no claim to them.

I've worked in rooms where dealers are instructed to make all the pots right before dealing. I always ignore this procedure, and the floors I work for have enough respect for my skills to leave me alone because they're well aware that I know what I'm doing.

well we have a betting line that's enforced, so the good dealers leave the chips in the direction of each player, but they are required to get the correct amount of chips inside the betting line before dealing any more streets.

let me be clear. here's the scenario i'm scared of (and dealers can't do anything about it.)

players A and B are on the river. player A acts first and announces all-in. player B says call without moving any chips. player A shows. player B sees he is beat and chooses not to pay the pot. floor is called. floor says pay the pot or leave. player B chooses to leave. player A has no recourse. he can fill out a complaint, but the house will not physically take the chips from player B. i have seen this happen where player B chooses not to pay, security is called, and he is allowed to cash out and leave, although he is banned.

obv this opens up to some pretty big angles since player B can basically freeroll a call assuming there is enough money behind where it is worth it to just get banned.

You were already clear.
I'm OK with your procedure.
But if it happens on the river the dealer might be trying
to get B to put his chips in and A shows and B refuses to pay.

In 20 years I've never had a player refuse to pay a verbal bet/call.

yeah i'm not blaming the dealers for this at all. things can happen pretty quick. all-in. call. showdown.

i've seen this happen 3 times. twice in my regular room, and once at ocean's 11. in my room, they get away with it. at ocean's 11, security stayed with the guy till he forfeited the chips. floorman said they would have had him arrested for theft if he left the casino with the chips.

It seems a lot of trouble to make players move large amounts of chips. Two very deepstacked players ..... 10 J Q K rainbow on the board one shoves the other calls...... its very likely that they both have broadway here. Make them spend twop minutes shoveling all their chips into the center before putting up the river makes very litle sense to me. I understand it is possible one of these players doesn't have the Ace and since the card room has a ridiculous policy about players being permitted to steal their is risk in not doing so ..... but it seems a bad policy on the part of the cardroom.

You guys talk like this "the house won't make the player pay" policy isn't common.

I was under the impression it was.

What is the casino supposed to do, physically reach into the player's pockets, pull out his money, count out a call, and hand him back his change?

There are laws in place that deal with people who put bets on the table, then try to take them back after they lose. There are no laws I know of, that deal with "owe-sies" ("I agree to bet $X, and if I lose, I'll pay you after the bet has been decided.") I haven't played craps in 100 years, but I think they even have something printed on the table that says, to the effect, "No call bets, put up your dough."

I am unaware of any Nevada laws or regulations that say verbal bets are any less binding than if you put a chip or cash on the table. And there are tales of Gaming officers taking people away when they refused to pay verbal all-ins at the poker table.

I think casinos are hesitant to take verbal bets because they can lead to confusion and difficulty collecting, just like at the poker table. But it's not because they are not binding. It's just a lot easier to prove a case in court if you can point at surveillance footage showing a player shoving his chips out, and then grabbing them and running for the door after the board is dealt out.

For a $50 unpaid verbal bet, most casinos are probably going to consider it too much nuisance to deal with the thief properly, so they'll just 86 him and perhaps quietly reimburse the player. For a $1000 unpaid verbal bet, I'd expect 'em to have the player arrested.

I have seen lots of craps tables that say no call bets. yet i have never seen a timely made verbal bet not honored at a craps table by either side. (I have seen the dealer no bet the player because it was a late bet)

NV already had a bunch of gaming laws, and is well-versed in making and enforcing gaming law. Most other places are not. To complicate things, a lot of casinos outside NV are on Indian land.

At any rate, I've seen an angleshoot attempt in Arizona (Indian casino), the ruling go against him, he refused to pay, and all that happened was the casino bid him goodnight, see ya tomorrow. Victim didn't even complain, probably because it was a common occurrence.

Question for you dealers... Is it worth it to fork out the money for dealer training school the way the job market is right now?

that depends ...... how much money? Where do you want to work? Can you support yourself on part time work?

well i live in PA but was thinking of work in AC, but I dont know if is hard to get work there or not.. Here's my situation; I cant get a gaming card in PA because of a mark on my record(i can in 5 yrs), So I called the NJ gaming board and they said I could get a license there, but before i shell out $750 for class, I would like to know if I'd have a prob finding a jot there... even if it is part time?

Atlantic City is laying off jobs every few months. You can always get a Temp job dealing the WPT or WSOP events and hope you can get brought on part time but otherwise it's really tough these days. Casinos are getting hundreds of applications for just a few spots whenever they do have openings.

I dealt in AC for several years, and I can say that you are probably better off waiting until Revel opens up. Go ahead and take the poker class if you need to, but even part-time work is hard to come by right now. PA and DE took a lot of players out of the AC market and the rooms are not doing as well as they used to. Most of the casinos right now are laying off table-games staff left and right (and that includes poker..)

Once Revel opens, that will open up positions not only at Revel itself, but also from dealers that left other casinos to deal at Revel. Plan on starting out either on-call or part-time, and in some rooms you may have to start out as a tourney dealer until you get some senority.

Just a little bit of advice on taking the poker class. I never took the class before becoming a dealer. I played for years before I started working as a dealer, so all I needed to do was pass an audition. If you happen to know any poker dealers and they can help you with some of the mechanics of dealing (i.e. pitch, cutting checks, etc.) you may save yourself some money not having to take the class. Double-check with the casino you plan on applying for to see if the class is mandatory or if you can just audition without it.

oh wow,, ok thanks. I just assumed you had to take the class

Like I said though, double check with the places you are applying to. I haven't heard any changes in the hiring process in AC, but it never hurts to be sure

I've spent the last two weeks job hunting. I've seen more "Poker Dealers Wanted" openings listed in that time, than I've seen in the past five YEARS. I guess the displaced online players are storming the B&M rooms, and everyone is staffing up. Yeah, AC is hurting due to the new markets surrounding them, but I've seen job listings for PT dealers in CA, WA, NV, CO, KS, MN, IA, MO, LA, IL, IN, and of course PA and DE. Granted, most are looking for experienced dealers, but plenty of them say just passing an audition is fine (if they say they require dealers school, I'm sure they'd be fine if you told them your "dealer school" was private lessons from a friend who deals--that is, as long as you can ace the audition).

The only things I got from school were: shuffling lessons, pitching lessons, flop-spreading lessons, and practice in the box while keeping count of the pot. I already knew from playing how to read the hands and cut the chips. You might be able to get the first three from some dealers you know, but there's no substitute for the "time in the simulator", actually dealing a game to your fellow students. It gives you the confidence you need to audition. Without that confidence, you're a nervous wreck and cards are flying off the table in all directions and the manager is angry at you for wasting his time. Also, counting the pot while you're dealing is a lot tougher than counting the pot while you're playing, if you're not accustomed to either.

www.indeed.com has been invaluable to my job search.

Don't worry if it's only part-time, they'll have plenty of work for you, or else they wouldn't be hiring. Even if you're only scheduled 2-3 days per week, it's child's play to pick up an extra shift or two each week by posting a note in the break room that says, "Hey full timers, if you want a day off and need someone to cover a shift, call YTF at 555-5555."

I've been invited to two auditions next week, but they're 1500 miles apart and I had to choose one (I'm batting 1.000 lifetime in auditions, so I like my chances). Again, I think it's been YEARS since the job market for poker dealers has looked this good.

EDIT TO ADD: Oh yeah, you'll learn more from 2+2's Poker Dealer Handbook (available for sale somewhere on this site for about $20) than you'll learn from the best dealer school in the world. Did they ever get around to updating that book and mentioning NL in later editions?

I don't know the situation outside of Vegas, but I'm hesitant to say the job market for poker dealers is good here. Right now we are heading into the busy season and many places are hiring TEMPORARY dealers. If you are looking for a temporary job the market is good. But come August those jobs are gone. And not only will you not be able to get hired for a fulltime position ..... but these days its very likely that you will not even see any dealers get promoted to fulltime (I'm sure there are some ..... but its not common).

As to picking up extra shifts ..... Well I have a friend who works at a room where managemnt refuses to allow dealers to change shifts with each other. Thats not a common situation but there are some places with this policy. But the other thing is that when business is good full timers love to give up their shifts. But as soon as things get slow ...... they feel they need to work every hour of the schedule.

I'm working parttime as a floor in one room and ..... I've been totally shocked by how difficult it is to find volunteers to go home early. In the past everyone wanted the EO but in a room where they are struggling they will fight tooth and nail to get to stay for the whole shift (which means that the extra board dealers almost never get to deal a full shift)

I'm sure they'd be fine if you told them your "dealer school" was private lessons from a friend who deals--that is, as long as you can ace the audition.

In PA the GCB requires your training to be with a certified and approved school only.

Some states require a certified school OR previous work in a real gig.

Some do not.

Find out what's up where you are and plan accordingly.

Anyone have info on how often Mohegan Sun hires dealers and what you would need to get the job? My only experience is dealing home games but I am sure I could pass an audition.

Here is the Dealer School Information for Pennsylvania:

1. Atlantic Cape Community College – Casino Career Institute (New Jersey)
2. Bucks County Community College (Pennsylvania)
3. Bucks County School of Bartending (Pennsylvania)
4. Casino Gaming Institute (Delaware and New Jersey)
5. Delaware Valley Technical & Community College (Delaware)
6. Luzerne County Community College (Pennsylvania)
7. Kanawha Valley Community & Technical College (West Virginia)
8. Pinnacle Gaming Institute (Florida)
9. West Virginia Northern Community College (West Virginia)

http://www.pgcb.state.pa.us/files/li...nformation.pdf

This doesn't include the list of Verified Casino Dealer Schools - training at the casinos themselves - or a really long list of Recognized Non-Casino Dealer Schools Acceptable for Dealer Experience Requirements which has "curriculum standards similar to, but not equivalent to, PGCB requirements. Additional training may be required for individuals who submit dealer training certificates from this list."

Wow. Talk about a bureaucratic nightmare.

I hope the CO bureaucrats don't come up with an idea like this. I'm surprised they haven't done this here already.

Most of these training programs are just ways for someone to get a kickback. I worked for a casino in Michigan a long time ago before I moved to Las Vegas. I dealt and floored at Bellagio for 5 years. I moved back to Michigan and got a job at the casino I broke in at. Before I left for Vegas I dealt poker and blackjack at that casino. When I was hired, and casino knew my job experience, I was told I needed to know 3 games. The casino charged me $400 USD, and 3 weeks before I could start work, to learn to deal roulette. I ONLY EVER DEALT POKER in the casino. Never dealt one single second of blackjack or roulette. It was a joke and a way for the casino to make more money from their soon to be employees.