Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Casino & Cardroom Poker Discussions of the activities, rules and etiquette of Live Casino and Cardroom Poker Venues.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-11-2018, 05:36 PM   #1
kavodladov
stranger
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 6
Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

I have recently played in Lucky Chances (near San Francisco) and the two casinos in San Jose.
In all three of these places I have noticed the following occurrence which is quite common.
It is important to note that most chips in use are low denomination chips (as opposed to a mix of many denominations) so a player's stack is usually organized in several stacks of 20 chips.

So as an example, let's say a player wants to bet or raise $15. Many players did the following: they grabbed a 20 chip stack in their hand, moved their hand over the line, and then deposited 3 small stacks of 5 chips each, one after the other, and took the remaining 5 chips back.
It is obvious that this is done in order that the size of the bet is clear but isn't it string betting ?

Again, this was common and nobody ever objected.
kavodladov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2018, 05:38 PM   #2
psandman
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
psandman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 15,726
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kavodladov View Post
I have recently played in Lucky Chances (near San Francisco) and the two casinos in San Jose.
In all three of these places I have noticed the following occurrence which is quite common.
It is important to note that most chips in use are low denomination chips (as opposed to a mix of many denominations) so a player's stack is usually organized in several stacks of 20 chips.

So as an example, let's say a player wants to bet or raise $15. Many players did the following: they grabbed a 20 chip stack in their hand, moved their hand over the line, and then deposited 3 small stacks of 5 chips each, one after the other, and took the remaining 5 chips back.
It is obvious that this is done in order that the size of the bet is clear but isn't it string betting ?

Again, this was common and nobody ever objected.
I have no idea why you would think that is a string bet.
psandman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2018, 05:44 PM   #3
kavodladov
stranger
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 6
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman View Post
I have no idea why you would think that is a string bet.
Here is the definition I know of: "It refers to a bet or raise in which the player does not put all his or her desired amount of chips into the pot in one motion".

This is clearly the case here. Note that not all the 20-stack is deposited on the table as a bet. 5 chips are taken back.
There is no way, w/o the player verbally announcing it, to know if they are going to put 5, 10, 15, or 20 dollars as the bet.
kavodladov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2018, 05:46 PM   #4
Aurora Tom
grinder
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 451
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

Doesn't sound like a string bet or anything close to it. A string bet is adding to an already completed bet with more chips. That's not what happened in your example.

But as to whether you think this is an improper bet on other grounds....

Some places have an extremely strict betting line, such that once your hand goes across the line whatever you have in it at that time is your bet. That seems to be a very rare interpretation of a betting line rule, but maybe that's what it is where you normally play. Most places you can go inside the line with a stack and cut out your bet, then bring back the rest.
Aurora Tom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2018, 05:49 PM   #5
Aurora Tom
grinder
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 451
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kavodladov View Post
There is no way, w/o the player verbally announcing it, to know if they are going to put 5, 10, 15, or 20 dollars as the bet.
His betting action is not complete until he stops cutting chips and then takes his hand back. Anyone acting while he is in the process is acting out of turn.
Aurora Tom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2018, 05:51 PM   #6
kavodladov
stranger
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 6
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

Well, how would you define a "completed bet" ?

The motivation behind the string bet rule is not to allow a player to decide on the size of their bet by their opponents possible physical reactions to an initial part of the bet. I.e. you can't when you have the nuts, bet 5, notice that the other player is moving to call and then bet some more.
In the scenario I am describing an opponent's reaction can be assessed midway.
kavodladov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2018, 05:54 PM   #7
kavodladov
stranger
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 6
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora Tom View Post
His betting action is not complete until he stops cutting chips and then takes his hand back. Anyone acting while he is in the process is acting out of turn.
I see. Fair enough, but this does not comply with the "one motion" definition I know of.
kavodladov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2018, 06:14 PM   #8
Aurora Tom
grinder
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 451
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kavodladov View Post
Well, how would you define a "completed bet" ?

The motivation behind the string bet rule is not to allow a player to decide on the size of their bet by their opponents possible physical reactions to an initial part of the bet. I.e. you can't when you have the nuts, bet 5, notice that the other player is moving to call and then bet some more.
In the scenario I am describing an opponent's reaction can be assessed midway.
Very true. That's why the onus at that point goes onto the opponent to wait until the bet is complete before acting or reacting. A string bet is when the bettor makes a bet, takes his hand back, then gets a reaction from another player and then adjusts his bet. The acts of taking your hand back to your chips is the key.
Aurora Tom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2018, 06:23 PM   #9
psandman
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
psandman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 15,726
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kavodladov View Post
Here is the definition I know of: "It refers to a bet or raise in which the player does not put all his or her desired amount of chips into the pot in one motion".

This is clearly the case here. Note that not all the 20-stack is deposited on the table as a bet. 5 chips are taken back.
There is no way, w/o the player verbally announcing it, to know if they are going to put 5, 10, 15, or 20 dollars as the bet.
Sounds like one motion to me.

Of course if you choose to define it as such we could call your way a string bet. Reach down grab your chips, lift hand, move hand forward, move hand down to table, release chips, see that's 5 separate motions.


The motivation to the string bet rule is not to prevent a player from assessing his opponents reaction and changing the bet size. If that were the reason for the rule it would make more sense to state that whatever chips you touched were the bet because you could look at your opponent as you gathered up your chips to assess his reaction.

The purpose behind the rule is to let your opponents know when it is that your bet is complete. That way they know when it is time for them to act. As such there is no need to be hyper sensitive in describing what constitutes a "motion"

Last edited by psandman; 10-11-2018 at 06:30 PM.
psandman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2018, 07:35 AM   #10
kavodladov
stranger
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 6
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

Your replies all make sense, and obviously, they fit what I observed in said venues.

I did some reading and in this article: https://www.888poker.com/magazine/st...g-bet-in-poker , The "peel-off" as it is apparently termed, is under the "Casino-Dependent String Bets" section.

This also fits my experience from other places, where it is not allowed, and even dropping chips from your hand in sequence is not allowed.
kavodladov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2018, 08:06 AM   #11
FWWM
FOOT FF Fristion '15
 
FWWM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Somewhere over the möller
Posts: 7,394
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

String betting is generally being dealt with much more relaxed in America compared to Europe and Asia (I assume based on your forum name you are EE or Russian)
FWWM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2018, 08:37 AM   #12
kavodladov
stranger
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 6
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FWWM View Post
String betting is generally being dealt with much more relaxed in America compared to Europe and Asia (I assume based on your forum name you are EE or Russian)
Yes and no
Not from the US but not EE either. The "ov" suffix in my nick is a coincidence. It's not a name but a word play in Hebrew.
kavodladov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2018, 10:00 AM   #13
Suit
Pooh-Bah
 
Suit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,982
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kavodladov View Post
Well, how would you define a "completed bet" ?
Generally, a bet is complete when you either:

- verbally announce an amount or,
- if you place chips on the table across the line and your hand comes back across said line. (basically once you go out across the line you can do almost anything and your bet is not complete until your hand comes back across the line)


These are the basic starting point, but keep in mind every room may have their own specific variation of these rules and it is important to know them wherever you are playing. Some rooms have a very specific and strict rule about the line where whatever you cross the line with must stay and other rooms are more lenient. Some rooms will rule that any forward motion with chips is a completed bet. It is important to ask, but the best practice is just to always do it the same. If you always have the amount you want to bet in your hand before you make any motion at all or simply verbalize your bet then you will never have an issue.
Suit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2018, 12:50 PM   #14
MJ88
veteran
 
MJ88's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,908
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suit View Post
…. keep in mind every room may have their own specific variation of these rules and it is important to know them wherever you are playing. …..If you always have the amount you want to bet in your hand before you make any motion at all or simply verbalize your bet then you will never have an issue.
This is excellent advice.
I would also point out that the old, old rule was "continuous motion", not "one motion". As long as your hand(s) kept moving in the betting area, you were assumed not to have finished acting. Pretty much out of date now. Today's poker is much more impatient, has lots of new rooms with new rules (not even to mention differing rules outside of the USA), and obsessed with anything which might somehow be considered a string bet. But if you follow the advice above, you shouldn't ever have a problem.
As far as others are concerned, you should definitely learn the local rules in whatever rooms you play in, but also learn to be patient and let others finish acting before jumping to act yourself. As far as calling string bets on others, personally I wouldn't rush to call them unless they're glaringly obvious or actually affect action.
MJ88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2018, 04:08 PM   #15
MMMed13
centurion
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 147
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

It definitely refers more to back and forth motion. If someone cut there chips as you described, paused mid way through and looked around then kept cutting I could see a floor ruling ending the bet at the pause. Someone just cutting out 3 stacks normally is legal and standard.
MMMed13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2018, 05:11 PM   #16
King Spew
Antici
 
King Spew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: pation
Posts: 11,459
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMMed13 View Post
Someone just cutting out 3 stacks normally is legal and standard.
If all he took over the line was the three stacks then yes, seems normal.

But if you are suggesting that taking a handful of chips over the line, dropping three stacks then bring back hand with "some" chips still in the grasp..... there is no normal. Some casinos allow this action. Some do not.

Casino where I play has the rule that if you bring in chips over the line in a NL game, all the chips stay in the pot. In a limit game, if the excess is more than half the raise amount...then it is considered a raise.
King Spew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2018, 11:28 AM   #17
albedoa
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,571
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

I don't agree that there is no normal, unless I've just so happened to skip over the regions or rooms in the US that don't allow you to take chips back. I've not once played where it's not allowed.
albedoa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2018, 11:36 AM   #18
albedoa
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,571
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman View Post
The motivation to the string bet rule is not to prevent a player from assessing his opponents reaction and changing the bet size. If that were the reason for the rule it would make more sense to state that whatever chips you touched were the bet because you could look at your opponent as you gathered up your chips to assess his reaction.
This. People who can't resist giving a reaction before a bet is complete will not be able to resist giving one if you were to place the point of completion somewhere else, so the string bet rule is not motivated by them. What the rule is supposed to guarantee as a result of its purpose is that you know when a bet is complete so you can safely react.
albedoa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2018, 02:40 PM   #19
King Spew
Antici
 
King Spew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: pation
Posts: 11,459
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by albedoa View Post
I don't agree that there is no normal, unless I've just so happened to skip over the regions or rooms in the US that don't allow you to take chips back. I've not once played where it's not allowed.
There is a norm.... except for the several casinos/areas that are different.

That makes sense

Sample size issue, al
King Spew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2018, 03:01 PM   #20
albedoa
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,571
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

Guess it depends on your personal definition of “norm”, but there are several people ITT expressing their impression of the norm, and my understanding matches theirs.

The existence of “several” that are different from the norm does not change that there is one.
albedoa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2018, 04:22 PM   #21
MMMed13
centurion
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 147
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Spew View Post
If all he took over the line was the three stacks then yes, seems normal.

But if you are suggesting that taking a handful of chips over the line, dropping three stacks then bring back hand with "some" chips still in the grasp..... there is no normal. Some casinos allow this action. Some do not.

Casino where I play has the rule that if you bring in chips over the line in a NL game, all the chips stay in the pot. In a limit game, if the excess is more than half the raise amount...then it is considered a raise.
You're nitpicking but fine. It's normal in casinos with no betting lines
MMMed13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 12:35 AM   #22
chillrob
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
chillrob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: under a dark cloud
Posts: 12,191
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by albedoa View Post
I don't agree that there is no normal, unless I've just so happened to skip over the regions or rooms in the US that don't allow you to take chips back. I've not once played where it's not allowed.
I moved away from the area 6 years ago, so it could have changed since, but when I played for years until then in Atlantic City, that was the rule there. Forward motion past the edge of your cards was a bet, of all the chips in your hand, or as much of that as could be legally bet, for limit games. No taking back chips, unless of course you had verbally bet a smaller amount before the motion.
chillrob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 02:01 PM   #23
BayAreaLegend
stranger
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 8
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

string bets happen all the time at LC. dealers are really bad there, you mine as well play as if it is allowed and just dont do it yourself
BayAreaLegend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 01:33 AM   #24
unta8
veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,072
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

They call this a string bet in Australia. Nobody in the US of A cares, at least on the west coast.
unta8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 10:36 AM   #25
sirpupnyc
old hand
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 1,337
Re: Is string betting allowed in N. California casinos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob View Post
I moved away from the area 6 years ago, so it could have changed since, but when I played for years until then in Atlantic City, that was the rule there. Forward motion past the edge of your cards was a bet, of all the chips in your hand, or as much of that as could be legally bet, for limit games. No taking back chips, unless of course you had verbally bet a smaller amount before the motion.
I'm not sure about other places in AC, but at Borgata, once you come forward with chips, you're betting (or calling), anywhere from minimum action to everything in your hand (no more).
sirpupnyc is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online