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Bonomo calls floor on Katz for not stacking chips in 20s?

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11-01-2018 , 01:23 AM

AllJackedUp

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,650

I'm watching the vid for the SHR FT at the 2018 PCA.

Bonomo doesn't like the way Katz stacks his chips, calls the floor, and the floor rules in Bonomo's favor.

WTF? really? is there a rule for stacking in 20s?

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11-01-2018 , 01:36 AM

Hotrodsather

banned

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 92

Straight ***** made little ***** move right there. Incorrect ruling from the floor also. I have found out a lot of things about JB lately that makes me think hes a little *****....

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11-01-2018 , 04:58 AM

TheChamp11

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Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 6,953

I don't think it has to be exactly in stacks of 20s, but it does have to have some sort of structure to it. If you have a bunch of chips all in different stacks or just in a pile, then other players aren't able to estimate your stack size. I didn't see the stream so I don't know what Katz's stack looked like.

FWIW I've never liked Bonomo though.

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11-01-2018 , 11:12 AM

WilGil

centurion

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 102

If I recall correctly, the reason Bonomo wanted them in stacks of 20 was because it was a shot clock tournament and you only had 30 seconds to make a decision.

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11-01-2018 , 11:55 AM

madlex

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Didn’t see the video and can’t comment on the specific ruling, but players in shotclock tournaments should definitely be required to stack their chips in a way that allows other players to easily count the stack.

In a regular cash game or tournament, players who stack their chips weirdly are just a huge annoyance and waste of time for everybody else. But with a 30 second shotclock, deliberately making your stack hard to count is an angle in my book.

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11-01-2018 , 04:07 PM

AllJackedUp

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Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,650

Ironically, a few hands later in the vid -- Katz again has his chips stacked in what appears to be ~30, and Bonomo has a bunch of his laid out in stacks of 5.

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11-01-2018 , 06:49 PM

albedoa

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,392

Do you think they were stacked conveniently or no?

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11-02-2018 , 03:38 PM

Franchise5

adept

Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 753

Haven't seen the video, but do recall seeing Katz stack his chips differently. There was one tournament I was watching where he just had one single column tower of blue and one single column tower of a different color. He was shortstacked at that point and his chips were all lower denomination chips, so it may not have been that big of an issue.

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11-03-2018 , 01:04 AM

Rawlz517

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Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 58,241

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodsather

Straight ***** made little ***** move right there. Incorrect ruling from the floor also. I have found out a lot of things about JB lately that makes me think hes a little *****....

Nope

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25: Cards & Chips Kept Visible, Countable, & Manageable. Discretionary Color-Ups

A: Players are entitled to a reasonable estimation of their opponents’ chip counts; thus, chips should be kept in countable stacks. The TDA recommends clean stacks of 20 chips each as a standard. Higher denomination chips must be visible and identifiable at all times.

20 is a recommendation, but there has to be a structure and this is even more important in a shot clock tourney.

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11-03-2018 , 10:19 AM

#10

borg23

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My chips are always visible,big chips always up front or up top but if someone thinks I'm gonna pit them in stacks of 20 for their convenience they can blow me

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11-03-2018 , 06:49 PM

#11

madlex

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Quote:

Originally Posted by borg23

My chips are always visible,big chips always up front or up top but if someone thinks I'm gonna pit them in stacks of 20 for their convenience they can blow me

Wouldn’t it be easier to blow the floor to get a ruling against you?

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11-03-2018 , 07:49 PM

#12

psandman

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why would anyone let this upset them

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11-03-2018 , 10:48 PM

#13

AllJackedUp

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Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,650

Quote:

Originally Posted by psandman

why would anyone let this upset them

Maybe because shot clock? I don't think it was that difficult for bonomo to estimate katz's stack, though. Perhaps bonomo was just trying to tilt katz?

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11-04-2018 , 09:02 PM

#14

DCJ001

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Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,843

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rawlz517

Nope

20 is a recommendation, but there has to be a structure and this is even more important in a shot clock tourney.

There is a difference between a recommendation, and a requirement.

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11-04-2018 , 09:44 PM

#15

albedoa

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Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,392

Not sure if there’s an objection in your post but the violation being corrected was that a stack was messy, not that it wasn’t structured in stacks of 20 chips. The floor used the recommendation to remedy the violation.

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11-04-2018 , 09:49 PM

#16

Tuma

Worships Amon-Ra

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 16,399

I'm curious if Justin asked him first, and what Cary's reaction was. Mainly for the gossip.

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11-04-2018 , 10:58 PM

#17

AllJackedUp

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Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,650

Quote:

Originally Posted by albedoa

You could be right. But the video, at least, shows Katz's chips stacked (over 20 high), and not messy. Bonomo asks "Cary, are those in 40s again?" and Katz says "no."

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11-05-2018 , 12:25 PM

#18

desire

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 278

Quote:

Originally Posted by madlex

Exactly. One hundred percent angle dirtball move. Bravo for Bonomo for calling him on it. Not keeping your stack in quickly calculated form in a timed tourny is an intentional attempt to delay and hinder decisions of his opponent. It's a glaring and despicable move. Thankfully Bonomo did the whole table, sans one, a service.

Last edited by desire; 11-05-2018 at 12:35 PM.

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11-05-2018 , 01:33 PM

#19

desire

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 278

Oh man. I just watched it. I apologize to Mr. Katz. What a goofball I am, to come out so ignorantly without watching it.

Sounded like a move but once you watch, totally 100% not. mea culpa

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11-05-2018 , 02:05 PM

#20

businessdude

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what time into the video to see this?

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11-05-2018 , 04:34 PM

#21

desire

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 278

33.07

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11-05-2018 , 08:04 PM

#22

Lord_Crispen

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,205

Yeah, but if you keep watching it gets to the part that seems more relevant than just a passing comment. 35:22 starts the floor involvement thing.

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11-05-2018 , 10:56 PM

#23

AllJackedUp

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Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,650

My link, in post #17 above, starts just a few moments before the incident.

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11-05-2018 , 11:35 PM

#24

albedoa

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Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,392

Your link is not timeset fyi (on desktop). It starts at the beginning both in the embedded video and in the clickthrough. Here's my attempt:

https://youtu.be/YhPEn29l5uM?t=1987

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11-06-2018 , 12:50 PM

#25

AllJackedUp

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Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,650

sorry guys, I thought that I was using the time stamp option from YT.

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