What do the other Dealers do with him? It's very hard to believe that no one has at least started to muck a holding and he's had to jump into action to stay in the hand.

Is it more of a 'I want it to happen' or 'I want to do it myself'? Could be both .. GL

Jim L, you can live vicariously through me.

At my first casino we had this real jerk who was a total dick to everyone, dealers, floor, players, etc. No matter what seat he was in he would always push his cards three inches forward when folding and then get all pissy when you prompted him for action. After awhile he used a card protector and his "signal to fold" was removing his card protector. And by removing it I mean have it sitting next to his cards almost touching and of course when you verified he got all pissy. At least once a down I would thank the table for properly folding their hands in a sarcastic tone, most of the times the players would pick up on that and laugh.

Well one day he is playing tournament and sitting in seat five so I am hoping to make my move at some point. About halfway through the down he has his card protector sitting next to his cards and is on his phone and when the action got to him I mucked them as he wanted. Seat seven makes a call and then all of a sudden he throws in chips for a raise and a second later, "Where are my cards?!?!" I told him you had your card protector next to the cards and you always say that is a fold. Totally expecting an argument to break out, he calmly says, "Your right" and goes back on his phone. I finally figured him out not too long afterwards, he was basically a bully. He would bark at everyone but the second anyone barked back he whimpered away with his tail between his legs. So from then on when he would be a jerk, I'd be a jerk right back. A year or so later he actually told me I was one of the best dealers in the room. Im sure it was a backhanded compliment but we tolerated each other for the most part.

Unfortunately there are personalities out there that 'naturally' just need to know where your line is .. and will test you until you/they find it. We had a guy like that in a place I worked and I would just go and tell all the new employees 'exactly' what was going to happen so they would be prepared. Pretty much all of them were thankful of the heads-up. My gut feeling is that this person's golf clubs, dog or other had to absorb any excess energy that was pent up from not being able to pressure co-workers. GL

Not sure which category this falls under but I found it amusing.

I've heard it's changed, but the WSOP used to be very strict about attendance. You could not request a day off. The only thing you can do is call in that day and take a point. Late even 1 minute is 1/2 point. 4 points and you're done for the year.

I took advantage of one obvious loophole - when I was a few or even 10 minutes late I would just not clock in and sign in saying my badge didn't work. As long as I was there by the time my name was called it was fine.

Another dealer, let's call him Steve, took it further. Steve already had 2 points and needed to take the weekend off for his sister's wedding. He asked the boss but was told there are no exceptions. Come to work or you're done for the year. So Steve used another rule - get caught not taking rake in a cash game and it was an automatic 2 (or 3? I forget) day suspension and final notice. So the day before the wedding he volunteered to deal cash. Each table he went to he announced that for the next 30 minutes there would be no rake and told them why. The players got a kick out of it and tipped like crazy. After his 4th or 5th table Steve finally got pulled out and given papers saying he had to take the weekend off.

that story belongs in the wsop hall of fame..

thanks for the laugh

Good stuff.

I wish companies were run more logically where employees wouldn't have to game the system to get even basic decency.

This isn't poker, but it is casino related.

A really long time ago (early 1990's), I was a craps box person/floorperson.

The place I was working was way understaffed. Ridiculously. I was working 6 days a week with overtime most of those days. I was literally thus close to quitting. We all were.

So my sister gets pregnant and has a baby. It is literally the first of that generation in my extended family. It is a huge deal. My nephew is born and my sister asks me to be the godfather of the child. She is going to have a baptism ceremony in 6 weeks.

I go into work and talk to the scheduler and explain that in 6 weeks I will need this Saturday off for the Christening.

She tells me no problem.

So every week, I make it a mission to talk to the scheduler to insure I will have that particular Saturday off. I make sure she understands that I don't care how much I work the rest of the week. I need that day off.

Weeks go by and I continue to bug her. She regularly says I will be off.

The schedule comes out, I am scheduled to work that Saturday. I go to her and question why. She says that we are jammed and she cannot afford to keep anyone off of the schedule. I literally tell her I will not be showing up that day. This is too important to my family.

So that Saturday comes, I call into work and say I cannot come in.

I go to the Christening.

Sunday I go into work and the shift manager calls me into his office. He tells me he is writing me up because I called off. Not just called off, but basically told the scheduler in advance I was going to call off. He says this was insubordination. He says we left them short staffed.

I immediately know I have the upper hand. He has already told me his weakness.

I carefully explained what happened. I explained why I needed the day off. I explained why it was of utmost importance that I was there for my God child. I explain6that I gave 6 weeks notice and checked in each week. I tried my hardest to make it easy for everyone involved.

He said it did not matter. I hurt the company by leaving them short staffed.

He was giving me a write up that consisted of a warning. Basically it meant the next time I called in I would be under review and would be subject to being fired.

I looked him in the eye and told him that I wasn't signing it. Furthermore, if there was any blowback from this, I was quitting.

They were ridiculously short staffed. If I quit it would seriously hurt them. I gave them a 6 week notice for a single day off and it hurt them. People worked overtime. Whatever.

He tried some more bluster, but we both knew that it did not matter. I didn't care. I was already at the point I was considering quitting.

I literally asked him if he wanted a staffing problem now or later.

After it was clear I was serious, I tried softening the blow. I explained that I didn't want to be a problem, but family was far more important than this job. I would do everything in my power to make both work, but priorities were what they were. I said that I wanted to be a team player, but that it works both ways.

After some back and forth I left his office without signing the write up that I believe was torn up as I never saw any repercussions.

However, it should be noted I quit the company within 2 months. This was back in the 1990's when job security was different. However it was the best thing I have ever done.

It is one of my trigger points when an employee tries their hardest to work with their employer, but is made to feel like a slacker/traitor. Employment is a two way street. Always.

Vacation Request Form? Communicating with said Shift Manager as much as HR? ("I'm so looking forward to seeing my nephew this Saturday!")

I think you more than went out of your way to insure that you showed concern for and communicated with your employer. I've never really worked for a 'huge' organization but I've heard plenty of similar stories where the trees blocked the forest.

Buddy of mine had to fight for 'return' air fare reimbursement because he stayed a couple of extra days in a city he went to for work. All paperwork and approvals were done ahead of time, but the HR person dug in .. saying he needed to return 'as scheduled' on the job order. Luckily my buddy had anticipated an issue and showed her .. and her boss .. that he had actually saved the company almost $200 by taking the later flight AND one night in a hotel that would've been required while 'waiting' for the original flight time/date.

HR girl saw it as 'a favor' and didn't want to deal with other employees going down that path wanting their favor, thus 'complicating' her workload. GL


PS .. no Christmas cards were exchanged before or after as a result of this situation.

Question that occurred to me. Setting is a free bar poker league, but we try to follow TDA.

I've noticed that sometimes when announcing a bet, I'll add "x more". For example, let's say blinds are 1k/2k, and button goes to 3700. I might say to SB, "3700 now, 2700 more."

Occurred to me that saying the "more" part might be giving player information I shouldn't (i.e., it's up to them to do the math).

1) Should I consciously drop that from my phrasing?
2) If a player asks, "how much more?", should I tell them, or just something like "the total is Y?"

I see in RP-12 that dealers should announce bets and raises:

Rule 49 is accepted action, which doesn't really talk about this specifically.

Seems like a pretty minor thing, but is it something I should clean up?

I don't consider it too big of a deal given the venue, similar to when I deal 1/2 NLH I'm probably saying a little more than at 5/10 NLH. But I'd say it's worth cleaning up. For one thing, let's say CO raises, your amount "more" will be different for the next 3 players to act, saying only the amount allows for little to no confusion.

For question 2) I will generally say "The total is Y, X more to you". Haven't had a complaint in years dealing in poker rooms but it may be wrong IDK.

There are some here who seem to think giving a player any information violates OPTAH. I disagree with them. A lot. To the point that I think they are being idiots.

That said, I think you can do better. I think just announcing the reraise is enough. No need to announce the difference unless someone asks.

It isn't terrible, but let the player figure out the difference. This normally doesn't matter, but in extreme circumstances it can matter.

Blinds are $300/$600. Inital raise to $2000. A call. Next player raises to $3400. Everyone folds to the inital raiser. Declaring the bet to him as $3400 is different than saying it is a min raise of $1400.

Like I said, you are not playing the players hand, but you might be influencing the action, if he is more likely to call "only $1400 more" as opposed to a reraise of $3400, despite them being the exact same thing then you are influencing the game.

That said, a dealer has to balance talking about game state versus the speed of the game. Part of a dealers responsibility is making sure the game runs smoothly. If this means doing the math for a player at a low limit game/tournament to keep the game moving, then so be it.

It is a balancing act with lots of grey. Good luck.

The default should always just calling out the amount of the raise unless you really think doing the math will help the game along.

My thoughts are Dealers should only work as hard as they need to given the table dynamic. If you feel the urge to do something to keep the game flow on point then do it.

In this case here it's best to just give the bet total and let the Player ask for additional details.

The 'more' part could offer information about reopening the action. While this should be no secret, it shouldn't be offered for free unless you have a Player who always asks anyway .. again, keep the game moving.

I like "Raise to X total" or "Now X" .. although the 'now' is something you hear at auctions and may induce action! GL

Would you handle it differently for a player who always asks "how much more?" when action gets to him?

Seems he was pretty clear.

I'm asking if he would tell the player immediately to speed up the game instead of waiting for him to ask.

Thanks for the thoughts, guys. Your input is, obviously, the direction I thought I needed to go.

Anyone looking for a change? I hear Milwaukee is nice on June 23rd .. sunrise over the lake part of the world ..

The casino there .. Potawatomi .. has posted 'all' jobs for the reopening of their poker room (14 tables). This is very welcome and much delayed since the CV shutdown.

This room was 20 tables and hosted two WSOPc and four MSPT events on top of their own fairly aggressive weekend tournament scene. Not sure what their short and long term goals are but this area is poker crazy.

While Rivers near O'Hare AP in Chicago pretty much rules the 'Bravo' roost I'd expect this room to take off quite well .. and you can always keep your eye on Bally's in downtown Chicago as to when they will open their room (eventually). GL


PS .. If you go to the Potawatomi Casino venue forume there's a link there

I've made a 180 regarding giving answers to player questions when it comes to clarifying the action.

Player A bets 100. Player B raises to 250. Player C goes all-in for 320. Player A asks "If I call, can Player B re-raise?" Years ago I would refuse to answer. I've had this conversation with several dealers and floors whose opinion I respect and now I just answer the question.

Player A bets 285. Player B raises to 950. Player A asks, how much more is it to call? I wouldn't answer in the past. Now I just give the number in the interest of customer service and keeping the game moving.

I wonder if that's addressed in the written guidelines in poker rooms and/or handled differently in different gaming jurisdictions? Would be interested to hearing dealers/floors input on that.

Maybe 10 years ago I saw a dispute about that in one of the biggest poker rooms in Vegas and talked to the poker room manager about it a couple days later. He told me there weren't any rules specific to poker that go against what authorities require for them in the rest of the casino: When action is on a customer they always have the right to know how much (additional) money they have to wager to be able to continue.

What's your opinion on this? Player A bets, Player B raises, action back to player A, Player A asks for the bets to be brought in. Dealer does so, and breaks down the amount of B's raise in a clear way. Afterwards, dealer will only tell player A the total rather than the amount more, citing the amount more is clearly broken down & visible.

Telling a player the amount is not helping them play better. It is saying what he owes to continue.
In what other world do we think it's OK to obfuscate what is owed or how much something costs?

It has always been a ridiculous argument to me that saying a bet, when requested, is somehow violating OPTAH.

There is also a clear difference between saying, "fifteen" and "just fifteen", so how it is said by the dealer is important before we derail down that track.
Having said that, the info on how much without extra words or commentary is fine.



Our room, and all rooms in my area that I have been to / am aware of, allow the answer to the question of how much more. The only issue that has come up is when a dealer miscounts, but the correct amount is still owed.

My opinion is that this is insanely petty and makes no sense.

I know my answer is going to be a wishy-washy non-answer, but it really depends.

What are the stakes? What is the mood of the table? What is the dynamic between all of the players? Etc.

If it is a low limit game on a Friday night with everyone drinking and laughing and otherwise helping the asking player anyway? Then of course it is a no brainer, keeping the game moving and not affecting the mood is far more important than the miniscule chance my words affect his decision. Especially if there is a decent chance another player will help him out otherwise.

If it is the final table of a huge tournament where everyone is silent. I am notnsaying a word unless asked.

Obviously those are extremes, but they are an example of the factors involved.

That said, the various factors can have different weights at different times. I have dealt in a very high limit cash game, but everyone was having fun and playing silly side games and there was one player who couldn't keep up with the action (he was obviously the whale/fish at the game). It was in everyone's interest at the game for me to help him do the math and keep the game moving without him asking.

Like I said, it depends on lots of factors. And they can mean different things at different tables.

That said, the default should always be to announce the raise and only do the math if asked. You should have a reason to deviate from this standard.

I should also say that there have been times in my dealing life where I have deviated from the standard and openly volunteered the amount of the raise and regretted it later.

Put another way, I was wrong to do so.

It is a very fine grey line that requires judgment.

I think this is great discussion because it highlights the difference between bad dealers, good dealers, and great dealers.

Bad dealers announce the amount of the raise almost all of the time not even realizing they shouldn't be doing it.

Good dealers always announce the amount the action is raised to without ever announcing the raise amount unless asked.

Great dealers recognize that this is one of those areas where they can bend procedure rules in the name of keeping the game moving. It depends.

There are lots of very good dealers who follow procedure to a T. I have no argument with them. However, the next level is understanding why the procedure is written the way it is and when it can be bent without violating the spirit of the procedures for the betterment of the game.