It was about this time of year, just before YTF passed away, that I had the good fortune to meet him when passing through the Twin Cities.

I've started dealing in a bar-poker league. When there's a full house, I announce it as "most of the X, and half of the Y" in memory of YTF.

Good guy, hope his family is doing well.

Searching for the del monte peas in the sky

I had the most unfortunate situation the other day that still kind of sticks in my craw.

Literally early in the first level of a fairly big tournament. Probably the 5th or 6th hand I dealt after the tournament started. Blinds are 100/100 with a 100 BB ante.

So far there has been no flops. All hands have either been raise and folds or raise then a reraise and folds. Action is moving very quickly.

It is a short handed table (players have not shown up yet) with only 5 players.

In this hand the action folds to the button. He throws out a $500 chip. It comes to a complete stop. There is a long pause and then he gestures with the hand he throws the chip in that he wants to raise.

He never says anything.

I know he never says anything because I was literally staring at him and he had been leaning his head on his hand with his palm half covering his mouth. It would have been really hard for him to say anything as his lips couldn't move with the weight of his head leaning on his hand supported directly at his mouth.

I have to rule this a call. No verbalization and even the non-verbal indicators were way late. I know his intent was to raise. 100%, however I can't rule what I think his intent was.

I just immediately call a floor. The floor can rule on intent, but not me a lowly dealer.

Unfortunately the nearest floor who responded was a new floor. Literally. I know her as a dealer. She is fine as a dealer, fully competent. I don't know what she is going to do as a floor. No idea.

She comes over and I explained what happened. Unfortunately the player immediately started talking as well and she wasn't experienced enough to shut him down and listen to me first before getting his input.

He immediately starts saying he said raise and then even says that when I asked him if he said raise he confirmed it.

I never asked him if he said raise. Never. I know he didn't. It was literally physically impossible for him to verbalize anything with the base of his palm in his mouth.

She waffles and struggles for a bit and this only encourages him more. He repeatedly says he clearly said raise and that he confirmed it after I asked him. This starts to piss me off because he is clearly lying. Even if he somehow said anything with his palm in his mouth, I never clarified it.

It took a bit, but to her credit she arrived at the right place. She asked the other 4 players if they had heard anything. One player said he never heard a thing. 2 players say that they never heard anything but they were cool with it being ruled a raise. The 4th says that he didn't hear anything but it was clear his intent was to raise.

She said that since no other player (or dealer) heard anything she was going to rule it a call.

He immediately gets pissed off and let's a few swear words go he then repeats that he said raise and he clarified it when I asked. I then speak up and say I never tried to clarify it because his hand was pushed into his mouth.

She sticks by her ruling and the hand continues. Small and big blind check. Flop comes whatever, they check he bets out $600. Small blind raises to $2000. He calls. Turn comes and Small blind leads out for $5000. He thinks awhile and angrily folds.

The next hand he donks off $3000 in chips.

He eventually calms down and plays normal.

The whole rest if my down, everytime he raised, he says it in a normal voice. He never exaggerates it (like a person who was wronged would). He even becomes more friendly the rest of my down.

I am near 100% sure that he was frustrated because he knew he screwed up and did not verbalize the raise. He knew it and eventually processed it and got over it. Ok great.

The problem was, when he was frustrated in the moment, he openly lied in order to persuade the floor and doubled down on it when it was clear the floor was wishy washy and not being assertive.

The worst part about a of this is that I am not a rules nit. Far from it. I understand intent. I would have been perfectly fine of a floor came over listened to everyone and then ruled that he was willing to make a one time exception and rule that the $500 chip was a raise. There was no further action so the harm was minimal. It isn't what I would do, but understand it and have sympathy. I get it.

However, what pissed me off is the lying. Especially since itbwas so blatant that my only defense is to openly say what he is saying is untrue. I work in a casino that is known for its customer service. I am taught/inclined to bend over backwards for a customer. There have been plenty of times where I do not hear a player say something and I stop the action and try to clarify it. I really try to give the customer the benefit of the doubt. I know I can be wrong.

The problem was he opened lied and I literally cannot call him a liar on it. Me defending myself required me to say his story is blatantly untrue. Not cool. It may have been made worse because eventually he realized it but never owned up to it.

Luckily it was with a floorperson whose opinion really does not matter. She is green enough that anyone with real authority would listen to me over her. No permanent damage. However this player did not know that. For all he knew, I could have been a dealer hanging on by a thread.

I really shouldn't be bothered by it, it is part of the job, but for some reason it got stuck under my skin and is irritating me.

I think you handled the situation well. Of course you shouldn't have (and didn't) call him a liar, but you did tell the floor that you didn't ask him to clarify anything. What did you think was "not cool"?

Jeez. I haven’t dealt in a few years, but I think you have to correct the lie.

Not much you can do there other than make sure the floor hears you say your side then let things run their course. Even if it feels like the floor wasn't listening to you, it sounds like she was just getting all the information she could before making a decision. They aren't going to come right out and say "Ok so you're a liar and I'm taking the dealer's word for it.", they're going to let the player save some face even if they don't deserve it.

Worst case the floor makes a bad decision and you have to run with it then talk to them when you're on break.

10+ years in the box and little things like this get to me sometimes, too. It's like my brain can't process it properly. After work gummies help a lot.

The player was intending to raise. Then he bent reality for defending his case. That is at least half lying. Even going into total lying area by saying you confirmed the raise. Not sure he was totally aware, maybe too used to bending reality. Move on, you saw some unpleasant territory, you corrected it.

Floor did right decision, kudos.

I've been waiting for over a decade for this to happen and it finally happened. $1-3 NL table and we're heads up on the river. The board is 4 9 T T J with no possible flush. Player A checks. Player B bets $25 into a $100 pot. Player A check-raises and makes it $125. Player B tanks for a while and reluctantly calls. Player A turns over Q8 for the 2nd best straight. Player B motions like he's about to muck his cards when Player A says "I want to see that hand." Player B turns over JT for a full house and takes down the pot.

I have no memory of ever dealing to either of these players, and there didn't seem to be any animosity between them. Furthermore, Player B was a quiet kid who gave absolutely zero vibes that he was deliberately slow-rolling. I truly believe that he thought he had trips and didn't realize he'd made a full house on the river.

In my room, only a player who goes to showdown is allowed to play the IWTSTH rule, but it was basically a moot point, since the other player tabled the hand himself. Still, it was pretty cool that I finally got to see this play out. The lesson, as always, is when another player is trying to give you a pot, shut up and take the chips.

Any post-hand chat? Really wondering what player A said, if anything.

If I was player A, I wish I'd be able to say something witty or at least smile and tell player B he owes me a beer.

In reality I would stare at the hand in disbelief for a second before grabbing my phone and acting like I didn't care at all.

Think I would say: "Oops!"

Player A played it off like it was no big deal.

This. This. And more this.

I have mentioned this story before, but I was playing in a $2/$5 game with a maniac. He was raising 75% of the pots pre-flop and then two and three barreling post flop. It was a table full of nitty bad players so it wasn't the worst strategy (just bad), but obviously his stack bounced up and down a lot and he was in for a bunch of buy ins.

Anyway, he gets involved in a hand where he raises, another player min reraises, maniac reraises, other player calls. All three post flop streets have the other player check calling a bet from the maniac.

At showdown the maniac says "Good call, I have king high." And waits for the other player to show. The other player insists he wants the maniac to show first. The maniac then says "You win. I have K 2." ( with no K or 2 on the board). Other player still waits for the maniac to properly show first. The maniac starts to toss his hand into the muck and the other player tells the dealer he wants to see the hand.

The dealer turns over K 3. The 3 matching the 3 on the flop.

The other player then turns over AK (Ace high) thinking he wins the pot.

Dealer pauses while looking at both hands, then starts to push the pot to the maniac.

Everyone is surprised, most if all the other player. When he finally realizes it he obviously gets pissed off.

To this day, what I do not understand, is why did the other player need to see the maniacs cards? With the maniac raising and two/three barreling as often as he was, it was clear he could have any two cards. What knowledge is gained by seeing what the actual two cards are?

Also, if he thought Ace high was good enough to call the river with, what knowledge is gained by making him show? You already think Ace high is good enough so you already think his hand is worse than yours. What is gained by seeing the 5 8 offsuit (or whatever)?

Dumb.

Show your Ace high and take the pot and be happy.

Another offshoot of this involves good players who insist on making novice/bad players show first because the novice/bad player is out of position at showdown.

The good player is fairly sure they have the best hand, but wait for novice/bad player to show.

Bad players are often embarrassed to show bad hands they get to river with. Especially if it involved them making a bet along the way. What is gained by making them show it?

If you are a decent player and you think you have the best hand at showdown, show it. Not only will it save the bad player embarrassment (making them potentially bluff again later), it will avoid those rare situations where they misread their hands.

If you are truly a good player, why do you need to see their hands? You already know enough about their hand to get to showdown against them. Take your money and save them the embarrassment.

The absolute only reason I can think of to force bad players to show first is if I really, really, really want to confirm an explicit tell I think they have. That is really rare, and even then it has to be offset by meta considerations.

The rules are what they are.

Difficult to pick spots when to enforce them.

It is just amazing to me when people don't show up for an audition dressed appropriately.

One time I was playing some morning poker while they were getting ready to do auditions. Only one table running, and one person set to audition was to my right. Auditions start at 10am, but there was also a $100 hot seat at 10am. The draw takes place after the 10am hand finishes. The guy runs over and asks the manager if he can stay for the drawing before they start. He says "Yeah, I mean, I guess so." so he runs back to play the last hand.

It gets to him on the button and he immediately slams down a big raise. I look down at KK and figure he'll keep betting to try and finish the hand early. So I tank call and hit top set. I check. He slams down another bet so I again tank then call. Turn I check and he shoves. I call and he flings his cards into the muck.

Neither of us won the draw. He ran to the audition several minutes late, heavily tilted, and $300 lighter. This was before I was a dealer, I might not handle it the same today.

As a poker player, I love this story. I love stories that involve taking weird information and using it to your advantage.

That said, how (and why?) would you play it differently today?

It sounds like you used the information available to you and made your best decisions with it.

Let's bring up a topic that may or may not get some interesting responses. Since this is a thread for poker dealers on a website dedicated to improving your poker play......

How has dealing poker made you a better poker player?

I know my direct response to this and I have some general comments, but I will hold off to hear others first because I think there will be some good responses.

I think there is a lot to learn in this.

Uh, it's made me not want to spend any time voluntarily being around poker players.

Dealing has not made me a better player. The only way to get better from watching poker is to really pay attention and play back hands after they finish, figuring out the what's and why's of what just happened. I'm just trying to either not make any mistakes (tournament) or to crank out as many hands as I can (cash).

The only thing it's been good for is understanding table selection. I've seen how nitty 1-2 and 1-3 games get absolutely destroyed by the rake. I used to stay in those games way too long hoping to make something from them, now I'll find a new table or go home. The difference between one table and another can be huge in a way players typically don't see. Also different stakes play very differently in different cities. Sometimes 2-5 is where the action is, sometimes it's where action goes to die. Sometimes low stakes PLO is all crazy gamblers, sometimes it's all grinders.

I'm also of the belief that big high hand promos don't help anyone but the house and maybe the bad players. They kill action which kills player profit and tips, and the occasional windfall is not enough to make up for it. I just saw a room taking out $3 for the promo drop when the pot hits $20. But they increase room traffic, so they've taken over most rooms.

I would have gotten a little less pleasure from watching him squirm while I tanked, at least.

Reducto, how do you believe high hand promos kill action? I haven't noticed that happening in games I play.

Players will call a bit more, but they bet a lot less. Hit a set? Check/call it to the river hoping to improve. Flop a combo draw? Check/call it to the river hoping to hit the straight flush. They also bring in the tiny limit games who win a higher percentage of the high hands because they're all making it to the river. In some rooms those games tip well enough, in others they're terrible.

I've consistently done better as a dealer and player in the late night games after high hands end.

Oh, where I play if you have a hand that could improve to a high hand bonus winner and everyone folds, they will rabbit hunt the turn and river to see if it would have hit, and you still win. I guess that prevents the need to slowplay.