Your assumption's correct; he had done nothing out-of-line and there was no reason to believe this was an abuse of the rules.

Granted... I find it very odd that there seems to be a high percentage of players who believe in these "magical dead hand lands". There needs to be a standardization of rules across the industry... but that won't happen.

I don't say this very often, but 4 2 would be fully justified in starting a knife fight there.

i was told this at the TROP about 2 years ago when I threw my cards in the muck (obv they went face up) and there was 3 ppl behind me... i asked the dealer would i still be able to go all in if i wanted (i was just curious) he said no the hand is dead once i expose the hand and others are behind me to act...

Maybe not where you play, but at the rooms I play in Fl, they specifically tell you before a tourney starts if you expose your hand out of turn it will be dead.

Not so for cash games, but you will get warned.

Ive played at the borg recently and it was heads up, and i told the other player he could look at one of my cards to get him to fold.... the dealer said that cannot happen and if it does my hand will be dead... i am so confused

Ruling is spot on.

Should stop players for being complete dicks. LOL asian guy got exactly what he deserved.

Don't you think the marginal ruling aspect of poker gives our game a bit of a "fun/exciting" edge? No, I'm not levelling.

No.

There is no "marginal ruling" in a river flush beating a flopped straight or in some guy calling with two outs, hitting it on the Turn, only to be beaten by a one outer on the River.

There is no "marginal ruling" in check-raise bluffing on the river and getting a good opponent to lay it down.

That is what give the game its "fun/exciting" edge. Not some ruling that seems to come from consulting a Magic 8 Ball.

It makes almost ZERO sense for a face-up hand to essentially be 'unmuckable'.

Wtf happened to peoples ethics seriously. But i guess that's what happens in the US with the 'Win At All Costs' mentality. Compassion goes straight out the **** window.

lol at the douchebaggery ITT. Anyone who'd get the Asian to commit just so we can snap with J9 is a fool. You've now lost the fish forever, and tarnished your own rep as a complete EV-crazed Ahole.

Hope the Asian guy went to the blackjack tables and binked like a mofo. Poor guy.

How could player 2 accept the asian's money? I would feel like a complete piece of **** taking the money. This guy deserve's a beating imo. There is no chance he is getting my 7k without a fight.

I would feel embarrassed taking that poor guys money, everyone at the table should of berated him for being a prick and the floor not having any common sense.

I dont really understand such a statement even though its completely wrong and all to take his money here, its not like you are likely going to get this much money off of him in the future with zero risk. And its not clear thats hes a fish anyways, just made a stupid joke that cost him.

the part im referring to is the whole "losing the fish forever"

Whilst it's unlikely he's going to get any action from this guy specifically ever again, i doubt it's going to do anything positive for his action. Imagine how put off people would be if they heard that story and they were thinking about giving poker a shot?
It's selfish moves like the one is the story that give poker a bad image and make lesser experienced players hesitate to play when they're made out to be greedy, unfriendly and uncompassionate d-bags like the guys in the story.
Poker is a long term game, and taking cheap shots like this one do all of us no favours. J9 guy (+others) should be named and shamed imho.

[I meant the fish term as a collective noun referring to all less experienced players, but someone who's in there with four-deuce isnt exactly screaming PRO, but ya never know. Sorry for the confusion.]

This talk about whether a hand is retrievable typically applies to a hand that has been "mucked" at showdown. At showdown, you can muck your hand, but you can't fold.

The Asian guy here folded. That was his action. You can only take one action, and he clearly folded. If he had made a checking motion, and then said "all-in", clearly the check would be a binding action since that was what he did first. Here, the action he took first was to fold, so that is binding.

What if he folded face down, then said "all-in" like he was joking, and he turned out to have the nuts? No one at the table would be claiming he didn't fold then.

Definitely this. I mean, seriously, WTF at this ruling?! This story is upsetting, and envisioning myself in the Asian man's shoes is actually making me kinda mad right now, haha.

Awful ruling. This appears to be legalised theft. Isn't one of the main purposes of poker rules to ensure a fair and equitable experience? I wonder what the floor would have ruled if the 4-2 guy had been an articulate, Caucasian reg?

All involved, at those stakes, should know better and the floor should never have had to get involved. Since that wasn't the case, I'll second the best 1 word summary. YUCK.

Also agree that I wouldn't blame the guy for racking up his $7k and leaving, never to play a CET property again.

thats a pretty bad misclick :/

Wow, this ruling is so unquestionably bad it's got me thinking for the first time in my life that Matusow is making sense.

whats an 86?


86 means 8 miles out 6 feet deep.!

if he did that what would he be 86ed from. All of CET? or just the Rio or just WSOP events?

but what is the 5k shover supposed to do? He wasnt going to fold and his only option was to call. Maybe after the hand he should have handed the money back to him but he couldnt have unless he left the table.

Even though it is a bad ruling the fault is on the moron who said all in. He should have just folded and let the hand play out instead of making a joke of the game.

Jesus I'm really regretting not going to the mat for this guy. I was one of very few people who spoke out, but having read the reactions ITT I think I should have thrown a fit and gotten the names of the people involved.

In my defense this was only the 2nd time I'd played 5-10 and I was too intimidated to fight back against several players and three staff members who were confidently saying "that's just the way it is". I just figured I was totally wrong and I stfu. And based on that experience I assumed readers of this thread would agree with the table majority - that the dude just made an expensive mistake. And now I feel like a dick for writing it the way I did.

Reading these posts, i realize I'm fairly representative of the inexperienced live players who will be terrified of making any kind of procedural mistake at the tables because of this. In fact, I immediately dropped back to 2-5 and stayed there for the rest of the series.

Is there anything we can do? I'm certain I could ID at least a few of the players at the table and probably the floormen, but the dealer blurs together with a hundred others. And maaaaybe I could pick out 42 and J9, but (and this is going to sound horrible but it's true) they were both Asian and I wouldn't be very confident in my identifications. Please no racist ban.