High hand > Nothing > BBJ

/thread

"back in the poker economy"

Just what is the result of that? Money either gets won by someone else and taken out (Why are pros pros? Because they consistently take money out.) or it just churns along in play until the house takes it out.

The BBJ is now 845K ... Couldn't make it in there this week ... Hope it survives til Tuesday.

If I hit then I'll buy a round of "Hot n Readies" for those that posted in the thread previous to this post. Does that count as 'back' into the community? GL

It depends on what you mean by "better."

More traffic is good for the room, with some limit of peak-trough ratio. If the trough corresponds to what you'd get without a promo, then peak-trough is better than trough-trough.

Big jackpots drive the peaks. Nobody will make a special trip to the casino for a hypothetical high hand where you pay out a low amount (say, $1) very frequently (say, every minute). More people will make a trip for a jackpot that's $60 per hour. Even more people will make a trip for a jackpot that's $1,440 per day. And a lot of people will make a trip for a jackpot that's $31,320 per month. Even though that's all the same money. Lotteries make a metric **** ton of money off those peaks because when the news media picks up on an $800 million jackpot, a ton of people who would never play yhe lottery otherwise play it.

It's not very valuable to have a promo that pays out less than what people think they can win at the tables. A 10/25 NL player simply isn't going to give a **** if she scores a $100 promo or not. But a 2/4 LHE player may make a special trip for a $100 promo because it's nearly impossible for him to win that in a 2/4 LHE game.

Basically, both the value and cost of a promo are nonlinear. And it's probably a judgement call as to what's an ideal jackpot - one that's going to fill your room but not cause staffing issues, one that's big enough to entice new/irregular players to come in but not so big that regs will rearrange their daily schedules for, etc.

For the long term poker pro, any promo is bad because of the overhead. The frequency at which the jackpot hits is almost irrelevant because in the long term you're going to average out. So for a typical BBJ of aces full beaten by quads, you're expected to hit that a few times in a lifetime of pro play.

For short term pros and losers, the added variance of the jackpot is actually good for all yhe reasons it's bad for the long termers. The only way a long term loser wins is by variance.

Large rooms can have larger promos since they have the traffic 'anyway'.

Small, reg heavy, rooms 'should' have promos that reward the regs since they are needed to help keep the room to stay open a lot of the time.

The HUGE BBJ is similar to those folks who don't play the PowerBall until it's over 500 million ... cuz 100 million just isn't enough! GL

But as that money churns around it keeps games going. For me as a dealer that means a job. For you as a player it means there are more games for you to choose from......

I agree with that. But for the most part, from the tone of the posts, people complaining care more that the money is not in their pockets.

Well that is about it being money that came out of their pockets in the form of jackpot drop.

How is that an unreasonable complaint? The reason we play poker is to win money. When there are BBJs, there is less money available to win.

When there are poker pros there is less money available to win too. Nobody ever tries getting rid of those leeches on the poker economy.

That is true, and is why people complain if a game is filled with pros. Even pros would prefer no other pros to be in the game. Both are very reasonable complaints. But only one is enabled by the house and can really have anything done about it. I don't see any way a poker room could get rid of pros, but they can get rid of promos.

On the other hand promos can bring more money into the room. It's a delicate balance.

Wow great thread everyone. Didnt expect it to be so long.

One other thing to consider, as these BBJs get bigger, and the room fields one to many complaints and opens more tables, the dealers will come from the pits. This can be a big problem or none at all, depending on the casino.

I think it can be a nice hype thing, and will go play there every now and then, but I am not a reg there so these issues dont bother me too much. If it was my reg room Id probably hate the crazy loud crowds and crappy play.

First off just LOL at A.) Hitting a high hand once a week and B.) Instead make $2000 more a week by just playing real poker...

1.) Most people who actually play for high hands and care about that to a large extent, probably aren't making money regardless of how they play and definitely not making $2,000 if they play somewhere else or don't play nitty and like the vast majority of poker players, aren't profitable players.

2.) I've played poker for 15 years, and never specifically just play to chase high hands, but I'd say on average hit about 4-5 a year.... Now where I play, it's usually $500 (Although sometimes less, sometimes they have $1,000 ones, which I have hit as well) so that's basically an extra $2,000-$3,000 a year that the laws of average, you know you should hit a few, which is definitely nice... In my 15 years of playing poker, I've never been at a bad beat table, and only twice been at a Casino when it's happened (while playing lord knows how many tens of thousands of hours at a casino that usually has 25+ tables running) Never once, regardless of the bad beat jackpot is, think I have any chance of hitting it.

While a large BB jackpot, might attract more people, the play is also like a few people have said, borderline unbearable.. People sitting there with $30.00 stacks unwilling to call anything other than Pocket Pairs and almost instafold if they don't hit the flop with it...

High hands on the other hand, while some looney toons might go and play just to chase them, (I really don't see how that's a strategy or profitable though) I think if anything, it helps the game, as it makes people chase hands, trying to catch that 1 outter straight flush, or call their trips even though they know the other person has the flush, trying to hit the quads.... and a lot of times will inflate pots that the probably should have been out of and would have been had it not been for a high hand promo... I've seen it go both ways, but if I had the option of playing $1,000 high hand every 30 minutes, or a $500,000 bad beat jackpot.. Give the $1,000 high hand everyday that I have a probably 1-2% chance of binking while I'm playing vs. a bad beat jackpot that I have about the same chance as being hit by lightning as binking....

Bad Beat Jackpot = Better for the Casino (draws crowds of nits, which will equal non stop play 24-7-365 til it's hit) but much worse for the players actually trying to play poker in my opinion

High Hands= Better for the players actually trying to play poker, who will undoubtedly hit one every now and then and keep some donkey's in, calling down $100 turn bet, trying to hit their 1 outter to win a $500 high hand (See it at least a few times a session as they fold and show and say "I had to chase it)

Nice post above .. Although I'm surprised you don't rake in more HH $$. I only play about 30% or less of my poker in casinos and hit 2-3 per year at a venue that pays out every 4 hours with AAAJJ as the minimum hand.

I 'am sure' that I play more hands than the average poker player, which obviously adds to my chances. GL

My 9000+ hours at a table has shown exactly the opposite .
during high hand promos 6 out of 9 players have less than $50 in front of them
while rooms with BBJ its a by product and afterthought most players don't play just for that.
your last paragraph is wishful thinking and occurs maybe 1 out of a 1000 hands.
the biggest gripe I have is the blatant outright cheating and collusion that occurs during HH promo's

Maybe you play in a room that doesn't have high hands often then, my casinos and card rooms around here pretty much always have some form of a high hand promo going basically 24-7, so it doesn't really influence the game action as much as far as what people buy in for .... I don't think it's very plus ev for anyone to sit there with your sole purpose is to chase high hands, esp in a place that always has double digit tables running.... and as far as your 1 in a 1,000 people chasing 1 outters to try and bink a high hand claim..... I'd say EASILY happens 3-4 times a session, where some donkey will chase and call more than he should... (and honestly sometimes have pot odds to do so if you include the high hand bonus, so I get it) but not sure where that 1-1,000 comes from, or if you play in the tightest room in the country.. but where I play, it easily happens a few times a session.

yea you find this in places like Orleans and Red Rock, I never noticed a change of play because of them

I play in CO and used to play poker as my only source of income. Primarily at 1/2 at the A*. I prefer high hand to BBJ but it is close. I play a very loose game always entering pot with a small PFR (3x BB+ limps). Those chasing BBJ (especially small ones like AAAJJ beat). Typically limp/call then fold on missed flops OOP. Not hard to beat a table full of BBJ nits by playing Q7s or better in position for a moderate win rate and little variance.

1/2 only source of income, in colorado poker room, you must have very low living expenses

BBJ update ... $871K ... please hand on until next week .. GL

I had money saved and took a couple years off during my career. I had lower living expenses than I do now. ~$20 he wasn't bad though. Colorado's 1/2 game is uncapped (100 spread limit). Table select well and the game plays deep.

Kind of off-topic but I will be in Detroit this weekend and I have two questions.

1. I imagine during the weekend the wait list will be super long (I will be in 1/2). Can i call ahead and get on the list? How long is the list usually.

2. I will be staying at the crowne plaza in dowtown. Is there a bus or something or should I just uber there?

bbj are great for players that are going to lose all their money anyway. it at least gives them a chance at making a score. but for all else it is terrible. even for the house long term.

players lose faster as they put in a higher rake. so they stay a shorter time and win much less often and will tend to quit poker sooner.
it also creates many more of their regfs. that now cant beat the game and must quit or play less.
and as said all those millions leave the tables for good. many casinos now have a ten percent or more fee they take out for administration charges so they may also think its good for them.

bbj were started in california decades ago by the cheats and for the cheats so they could put in coolers on graveyard and take off the jackpots. which they did in every place that had them.
also the casino would steal much of the jackpot money as the players had no idea what really went into it. happened in europe as well until they put in a board that showed all the drop as it was happening and not what only the jackpot was.

Yes you can call. The list can be anywhere from 20 to 100 people. Really depends on whats going on, time of day. Ive said before but just another heads up this casino is not on Bravo.

I would Uber or Lyft for sure. However the Crown is pretty fancy, they may shuttle you there. Doesnt hurt to ask.

Good Luck, and dont hit it without me at the table.

BTW $883.7k and growing