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Old 10-10-2018, 07:36 AM   #1
nypoker1234
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Banned for life from my local card room

Drove to casino last night arrived ~1120pm hoping to grab a seat by 1130pm for a shot at a hot-seat giveaway $1000 tournament seat. I walk in the door, ID in hand, and give it to security at entrance. He looks at me, back at ID, puts it in his computer and a red X pops up. He double checks it with his partner and tells me, "You are now banned for life from this property."

I explain I played there last night and had no issues and as far as I know I've always played by the rules.

They hold onto my ID until head of Security arrives, returns my ID, and explains I was banned for "compliance" reasons. I was not giving my SS# to the cage. I don't recall ever doing >$10k in transactions in a day so I didn't think it was necessary to give SS#. They never asked for it specifically. They occasionally asked for player card on roughly >$3k in transactions.

Anyways security guy ends up saying, "it's actually negotiable" and gave me his boss # and told me call tomorrow during 9-5 business hours and he can answer more questions.

Weird.

Anybody ever experience this?

I'm hoping it gets straightened our and will update/close this thread if necessary but was wondering if anybody else ever had an issue like this? Suddenly be told "life banned" without warning?

I hope it isn't like a situation where I need to write a long letter asking for re-admission. If they do allow me back, I also don't want to be in fear of being booted at any moment and chips confiscated (is that even legal for them to do that to me? I mean I guess a casino is a private business and there's things they can do that a more "public" one may not be able to?).

Anyways let's see what happens; just wanted to hear other people's opinions, advice, & whether anybody else ever experienced a similar situation?

Thanks

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Old 10-10-2018, 07:54 AM   #2
MikeStarr
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

Casinos arent in the habit of banning customers. They don't want to ban anyone unless they have to. There's more to this story. Lets hear the rest of it.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:34 AM   #3
albedoa
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

They never asked you for your SS# but they banned you for not giving them your SS#? Yeah, spill the rest.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:48 AM   #4
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

There's something missing in this story.
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:05 AM   #5
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

Assuming we have all the pertinent information, OP will be receiving an apology from the head of security within a week.
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:14 AM   #6
nypoker1234
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

Just spoke to the higher up guy of security. He said banned for life. He said that whatever the guy last night said about SS#, he wasn't instructed to tell me. He said at this point there is no appeal process and it's lifetime ban. He said he will look into whether I can get back in and will contact me if there's something I can do, but otherwise if there's nothing I can do that he won't contact me. He told me the ban happened yesterday evening sometime (when I was there until about 5am that day...weird?).

Anyways here is my guess:

I often buy a lot of extra chips and sell them to players at the table because the dealers aren't allowed to sell players chips out of the rack. It allows for fish to quickly rebuy back into the game without having to miss a hand. It was never an issue as far as I knew. I recently was told by a dealer that you can't sell chips at the 5-10NL table but it's perfectly OK to sell chips at 1-2NL and 2-5NL. Dealer even specifically told me that it's okay to sell $1,000 in chips at 2-5NL but not OK to sell $500 at 5-10NL (weird).

I also like to collect certain type of $ (star notes, old $ etc.) Each trip the cashier I always asked the cage people whether they had any old $ (small face pre-1990) and they'd usually help my request. Often I would cash out for as many small bills as they could provide at end of session which I'd sift through and look for anything I liked.

The last time I was there (2 days ago) I cashed out 500 in chips for a strap of $5 bills, bought chips with that cash again and later cashed out another 1000 in chips for a strap of $10 bills which I then bought again for chips and cashed out for 50s at end of session. As I left, I did a $1,000 cash exchange my large bills for a few straps of $5 and $1 bills (1k is max cash swap they allow, and I provided my player card for their "tracking").

I find this all really strange. Too bad he couldn't give me any answers. The way he said "bye" at end of phone call makes me think he will not call back.
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:20 AM   #7
nypoker1234
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

I guess the only other somewhat strange thing that comes to mind was that I was making frequent trips to the cashier about a week ago during a late night session of 1/2NL (only game they had available) buying 2 black chips at a time w. $100 bills (maybe like total of like 2300ish??).

I mean maybe they think I'm doing something weird? If I was warned in advance I would have obviously never done any such out of the usual activity like swapping bills or going back and forth between cashiers. For what it's worth I was "banned" from a few local banks for such similar behavior a couple years ago but two of them let me back in and the third one (M&T bank) won't let me make an account with them again claiming something about my credit or something is messed up and I owe $ somewhere? (I paid off my remaining student loan of ~$3300 within the past year, otherwise I never owed any $ anywhere).

I guess I need to find a new casino to play poker at. It's a shame because this one (rivers casino NY) was so local and convenient for me and I hate long drives.

And Rapini, I sure hope I get an apology and let back in but I would bet against it. Can we make a side bet? Friendly just for $1.00?
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:26 AM   #8
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

I haven't figured out which of the transactions that you are describing are happening with the cashier and which are being done with other players; but I can definitely see how your activities look like some sort of amateur money laundering.
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:34 AM   #9
nypoker1234
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

I noticed I have 9 employees of this casino on my linkedin. Was thinking of messaging them, explaining what happened and asking if they have any info as to whether I could get un-banned somehow???

Or is that just stupid, weird, and not worth wasting my time trying?

Time to look for a new casino?
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:35 AM   #10
nypoker1234
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

All the transactions I described happened at cashiers. Buying chips in poker room, selling at main cage.

In terms of transactions with players at the table, I think I only sold one guy $200 in green in front of the floor on my last trip and was never told anything bad by anybody while I was doing it or afterwards.

Weird, wild stuff.
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:48 AM   #11
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

What is so weird and wild about banning a guy that sells chips to players at tables and makes multiple fishy exchanges most every night he is there?

And leaving that out of OP is also pretty lol.
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:50 AM   #12
AngusThermopyle
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

Sounds like they are afraid that you are somehow laundering money (or, more importantly, that the govt would think so) with all your transactions. Or structuring to avoid a CTR. Or something. They just don't want heat from the govt.

If you switch casinos, I would suggest keeping your cash transactions to the basics.
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:51 AM   #13
SanchoHH
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

What, for example, was the point of this (I'm assuming you did not lose 11 buyins and only went to the cashier to genuinely rebuy):

Quote:
Originally Posted by nypoker1234 View Post
I guess the only other somewhat strange thing that comes to mind was that I was making frequent trips to the cashier about a week ago during a late night session of 1/2NL (only game they had available) buying 2 black chips at a time w. $100 bills (maybe like total of like 2300ish??).
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:56 AM   #14
nypoker1234
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

You can be not careful enough, but you can never be TOO careful. I always want to be able to buy in 11 times in a row in case I get felted over and over and over. That way I don't need to make a trip to the cage.

And I was never told there's anything wrong with selling chips to players otherwise I wouldn't have done it. I specifically asked a dealer if it was OK and he gave me the answer I listed above.

And if I gave my ID and player card to cashier dozens of times. They even knew who I was before I had to hand them my ID eventually and would have my name pulled up before I showed up at the cage. I was never asked for SS#.

WTF
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:58 AM   #15
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

Quote:
Originally Posted by nypoker1234 View Post
And Rapini, I sure hope I get an apology and let back in but I would bet against it. Can we make a side bet? Friendly just for $1.00?
Let's instead make a bet on an NFL game that happened this past weekend, but I'll tell you who won and my money will be on the winner. I might even give you odds. Sound good?

What are your other options for playing poker in your area? Where do you live and what casinos are nearby?
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:06 AM   #16
SanchoHH
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

Quote:
Originally Posted by nypoker1234 View Post
That way I don't need to make a trip to the cage.
But according to your desciption, you *did* make frequent trips to the cage - to buy a total of 2,300 in instalments of 200
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:22 AM   #17
timeofyouppi
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

You were banned because you have a lot of suspicious transactions. The casino doesn't care about the reasons, and coming from their perspective they shouldn't - from their perspective, it's better to ban an eccentric player (wrongly) than to allow something that looks a lot like money laundering continue to happen. Being a poker player you aren't making the casino much money like a table game or slots whale would, so they don't have an incentive to try to get you back.

Arguing isn't going to help unless you personally know one of the high-ups there (I assume, you don't). They think you are a money launderer, and aren't going to accept any explanation you give.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:25 AM   #18
Reducto
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

You were banned for doing many of the things done by money launderers and those trying to scam cashiers. The casino can get fined big time for allowing those behaviors. A higher-up at that casino noticed the reports that were undoubtedly being filed on you and decided it wasn't worth the risk to let you stay.

Are you looking for rare valuable bills or something? What's the reason for buying the bills and selling them back?
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:47 AM   #19
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

Most of what I'd say has been covered already, but for future reference, you should understand that asking for old bills is suspicious because they have poorer security than newer bills.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:51 AM   #20
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reducto View Post
You were banned for doing many of the things done by money launderers and those trying to scam cashiers.
Yep. And even if you're not doing anything shady you're a real pain in the ass for the cashiers.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:58 AM   #21
Playbig2000
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

Quote:
Originally Posted by nypoker1234 View Post
I was not giving my SS# to the cage. I don't recall ever doing >$10k in transactions in a day so I didn't think it was necessary to give SS#.
Whether or not you agree that they were entitled to your SS# is irrelevant. If they require you to fork over your social security number, and you refuse, they can refuse to let you into their establishment as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nypoker1234 View Post
The last time I was there (2 days ago) I cashed out 500 in chips for a strap of $5 bills, bought chips with that cash again and later cashed out another 1000 in chips for a strap of $10 bills which I then bought again for chips and cashed out for 50s at end of session. As I left, I did a $1,000 cash exchange my large bills for a few straps of $5 and $1 bills (1k is max cash swap they allow, and I provided my player card for their "tracking").
Quote:
Originally Posted by nypoker1234 View Post
I find this all really strange.
You and me both.

Why on earth are you exchanging $1K in cash for one dollar bills? Who the hell wants to wait behind you at the cage while all this is going on? The casino is NOT A BANK DUDE.

They don't want undesirables on their property, especially people they suspect are selling drugs and washing money in their casino.

I've played in the NY rooms in the past, like Rivers - I can't tell you how many times I've sat next to someone who after a little small talk they make it known to me that if I "need anything" to let them know.
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Old 10-10-2018, 12:28 PM   #22
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

they banned you for multiaccounting 2+2

It's quite common actually. There's no recourse
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Old 10-10-2018, 12:29 PM   #23
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

Quote:
Originally Posted by nypoker1234 View Post
I guess the only other somewhat strange thing that comes to mind was that I was making frequent trips to the cashier about a week ago during a late night session of 1/2NL (only game they had available) buying 2 black chips at a time w. $100 bills (maybe like total of like 2300ish??).
[jumping on]

Really?.....and you want to know why you were banned.

[/jumping off bandwagon now]
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Old 10-10-2018, 01:58 PM   #24
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

I had a similar situation happen when I refused to give my ssn on a 3000ish transaction and I took my chips back and left. They banned me next time I came in. If you apologize and explain the situation that you didn’t know this behavior was a problem for the casino and it won’t happen anymore if they lift the ban they’ll probably oblige. They will make you fill out some paperwork so they can file a suspicious activity report on you.

You seem to be both delusional about your behavior in not seeing how it’s an issue for the casino and entitled to do any thing that doesn’t explicitly break a written rule which is not how the world works.
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:08 PM   #25
nypoker1234
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Re: Banned for life from my local card room

OK I get it now and I promise to only deal with $20 bills and up.

And to answer everyone's questions, yes I was searching for old rare bills just for collecting purposes but I guess my behavior looked suspect to them.

And no I don't know anybody higher up.

I'd happily fill out whatever paperwork they need me to allow me to play there again (if anybody knows "higher ups" at Rivers NY I'd be happy to discuss my situation with them if there's a chance I can be allowed to play poker there again).

Just looking for star notes. And old $. Didn't know that was something I could get banned for. I've done it at casinos all the time in the past and never had an issue but I suppose I should tone it down a bit.
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