Seen casino over pay on roulette table then ask for it back days later and bring out camera footage .
Even casino didn’t catch that whole Phil Ivey edge sorting thing whatever until way after the fact etc

Not sure if relative but just sayin

When are you going to accept that Suit's answer is the only answer that you need? The casino doesn't have a vested interest to ensure poker players' money goes to the right place. They are there to facilitate the game the best they can. Comparing it to an incorrect payout at a table game isn't a good comparison for what I think are obvious reasons. Yes, the casino cares more about their money than your money. That's how it works. Protect your action.

VC ... welcome to the forum ... I didn't notice that these were your first posts. I think if you spend some time going through some of the other threads you will find other Players that have gone through the 'wrongs' and 'rights' of poker and you'll get a look at their perspective on these types of spots as well. I think you will find a pretty good support system here in most cases.

(As with any 'text', things can get a little lawyer-like with the English language. And some posters will dig in to 'protect' their position.)

1) I didn't mean to imply that you mucked your cards. During a tournament all-in the cards are tabled ... and generally the Dealer will bring them all to the middle before finishing the Board. When this 'non-standard' Showdown occurs, the Players no longer have control of their cards, the Dealer does. If this had been a normal hand you would've still controlled your cards and may have taken a second look at the Board before releasing them ... and that may have changed things for you.

2) One thing you will find here is that if other posters start to think that an OP (original poster) is not receptive to what's being posted that the thread can turn negative in a hurry and new posters will just pass over it, which means we miss out on their perspective as well.

3) I think you have at least some poker in your background, but maybe not too much 'public' poker? Not sure. Don't let your interest in poker be jaded by one bad spot. Granted it's a pretty big spot and I don't blame you for being upset and disappointed at what could've been.

4) Definitely you control what you want to do with your 'fun' money. I'm not sure any of us here can make you feel any better, but what we can do is tell you what we've gone through in similar spots. It's probably not what you want to hear. You want us to tell you that a full refund, free tournament entry or some other form of compensation is coming. We don't control that, but in the end you may get some sort of benefit from the casino ... we're just not going to get your hopes up too high. We are going to stick to helping you prevent this from happening again, without any guarantee that it wont.

5) There a lots of analogies out there. And you will many attempts to help you see a posters viewpoint. Here are a couple more ...

A) You sign up for a fishing trip, but the tide is low and the fish aren't moving. You blame the charter and decide that you will never fish again!! Does that make sense?

B) You love hamburgers, but you get one with a bad tomato ... You'll never eat one again!

You must have some poker IQ, you made it pretty far into a decent buy-in event. Don't let a mistake by a very well respected venue keep you from doing it again.

OK .. Here comes the 'hard' comment. When you entered the tournament, did you really expect to cash? You yourself said you wanted to play for fun and relax. There are very few 'fun and relax' activities that can offer a positive return like poker can ... If this mistake had happened in Level 3 instead of Level 11? at the money bubble would it be as big a deal to you?

Poker needs new blood, welcome to the forum once again. Where did you hear of 2+2? I think you have something to offer both poker and this forum and hope to see you stick around ... GL

Thank you I appreciate it ����

I am living with the fact since hands were released I did not catch the error in time so I suffer the consequences of not protecting my action and not having 500 at 10k blinds close to the bubble with a chance at 50k up top or a shot at a chunk of the prize pool .as far is expecting to cash Last time I did play this tournament doing exactly what I was doing 2 digit beers deep socializing did get 20k for my efforts which was my largest cash ever so it did sting missing on a chance to go back to back in same tournament in a deep spot . If it happened level 3 would not be so upset . n , I felt no one was hearing me out in the poker room , a player who was supposed to be knocked out sitting with my chips and I’m out was really frustrating .I’m not the type to post on the internet really I have no Facebook instragram twitter or any social media account so I came to a this poker forum to vent , I over heard poker players talking about a 2+2 poker forum in the past , saw something interesting regarding etiquette in the past so I decided to join .

If td /casino do whatever they can in their power after the fact going over all the facts of what happened I can live with it

Thank you yes I plan to stick around

Verdict : didn’t look at tape no apology no min cash no refund no tournament entry .slap on the wrist .just more advice that don’t put blame on anyone else in casino besides myself for not protecting my action or money which is now drilled in my head .insteadof tipping 10-15 percent on anycash I ever had in casino( very few) I guess I’ll save thst for my self next time if I ever miracly cash unless I feel any dealers went above and beyond dont want to punish someone for another’s mistake

Extremely bad takeaway and passing of costs considering what you have been told and what you claim to have learned. Why are you acting like this? Take an ounce of responsibility.

Like this is the least believable thing you could have said given what you actually missed. The problem is not the talking, my lost dude.

Acting like what ? Going about it how I feel? Perspective of not being in a poker venue for months and thats just how I feel . Through out the posts I put everything out there of what happened . Took responsibility and realized no am not getting in the tournament paid my dues , took the loss, missed out on the prize pool etc . I guess coming from the outside I do not work for the casino or am employed by the casino or recieve a pay check from them , they are not paying my bills. As far as getting a simple refund or a feel good gesture did not get anything which is cool I understand millions of hands dealt everyday if everytimevplayer missed hand after it was over and chips were gone a lot would be gone so I see why the rules are in place to protect the casino . But is it wrong for the person to feel upset are emotions a taboo in poker ? I guess after working as a server in Applebee’s weekend nights in the past and being a cell phone store rep in a busy location I took the heat for a missed order or wrong payment plan and resolved any customer issue with a smile no matter how busy it was . Customers were coming into a place which I represented owned up to every mistake etc they were spending their money In a estsblishment I represented and if no customers I would have no job . I represented Applebee’s and Cricket wireless .casino is not taking an ounce of responsibility not me but I get it. I put myself in dealers shoes and if I was dealing and I missed it on my clock for a customer Id own up apologize o the customer tell my supervisor who would do what he or she can , I don’t know ?how most businesses who stay in business Operate .

But I get it in poker , have to be responsible for everything that goes on , you are not a customer in a establishment where certain level of service is expected you are pretty much running your own business , and have to wear the hat of dealer by checking everything , floor and everything else since no one else gaf about your money . I get it now

Look, you asked for opinions on the situation, you got a very clear answer. A mistake was made. Standard policy was that it was uncorrectable by the time it was noticed. Player always bears final responsibility for protecting action.

This is the same thing that is said when the dealer accidentally mucks the ten seats live hand after the go all in. This is the same thing that is said when a players action is skipped and too many people act behind to roll it back. this is the same thing that gets said when any one of dozens of minor mishaps occur. Yes it sucks, and you actually do have all of our sympathy. But you were not a victim, you were not cheated, you were not given 'bad customer service'. A mistake happened, it could not be corrected by the time it was noticed. Case closed.

I am not a casino employee, but just someone who has played a decent amount of live poker. I have learned to always protect my hand, always confirm action, always double check dealers chip counts, and always double check hand declarations (unless I am tired, I do most of this without conscious thought).

I guess what most of us are reacting to is your anger and self righteousness. It is OK to be sad or upset, but being pissed off about is really not constructive.

/tl;dr: chill dude, crap happens, roll with it.

The problem is that there's nothing they can do to fix it any more. The chips you had went into another stack and that difference in stack size changed the way the hands went afterward, not just for you, but for everyone at the table. If they owe you something for pushing the chips the wrong way do they also owe something to the guy who backed off a marginal hand that he would have stolen with otherwise because he now had a deeper stack in the blinds behind him? Mistakes have to be caught before the next hand starts or there's going to be too many changes to undo. If there was something they could reasonably fix they could, but the knock-on effects are too important. It's like stirring a can of paint -- you can't just stir the other way and unmix the two colors afterward.

Also while the Borgata staff is generally very good you always need to be careful in larger tournaments like this. They'll have all their veteran dealers cycling though but for a big event they'll also call in all their B list guys and maybe have a couple prospective hires working on a temporary basis. Slow it down if the pots are big, make sure things get set right before you move on. Taking this time will often get other players checking things and the dealer will recheck once he notices hesitancy on the part of anyone involved. The dealers want to be 100% correct but they're human.

Great response Sheep-Goats.

Yes the casino cares about your money. But you should care about it more than they do. YOU had a responsibility to protect your interests in the hand. You had plenty of time to say, "Hey I had Ks and 10s, the side pot should be mine." You don't ever say when you realized that the mistake happened. Hard to tell with the broken English but I thought the original post mentioned something about going to sleep. Maybe I misunderstood. The time to correct mistakes is before the next hand is played.

As for the tapes, you will not see them. It just won't happen. If the tapes showed a conclusive mistake, there still won't be a way to make you whole. But if you are dignified in your conversation with the manager, then he may be inclined to throw some kind of comp your way. If you scream and cry and swear and act like a jackass, then GL.

There is zero chance they can undo the error once a new hand is completed... maybe if you said something as the next hand being dealt before action, but not several hands later. The dealer made a mistake and so did you and everybody else at the table.

What you could have done is be calm and understanding and speak to the room manager and ask if they can make it up to you in another way. This is a situation where being calm and nice and if you are a regular having a reputation of treating people in the room nicely might help. Maybe you get a discount on a future buyin. Maybe you get a voucher to a nice restaurant.

Bad beats happen in life and not just in poker. Multiple people made a mistake and it sucks that you got punished for it. Learn from it and move on. Nothing else you can do.

Feeling upset or devastated is normal here. And pain is a very good teacher.

Now you know that you have until the start of the next hand to lodge a complaint.
As opposed to Applebee's or a wireless store or any store for that matter, the casino is serving many customers at one time. The product they are offering is a fair game in a safe place. They provide security. They provide processes and procedures to insure everybody has the same chance of winning.

What they won't do and can't do is offer refunds to people who are affected by mistakes that their staff make that are within the rules of the game. The reason for this is that once that door is opened, there would be a ton of angleshooters, crooks, colluders, etc. who would take advantage and possibly make running a game not viable.

So just like you miss out when you fold to a bluff, or mistakenly muck a winning hand, you lose out when you fail to protect your hand.

This has been explained to you over and over and you claim to get it. But then you launch into a bitter reply about how casinos don't treat people right and no other business would do this.
I do think they owe you an apology. But that doesn't really change anything. Except you get the sense that they care and will try to do better.

But understand that it is in the best interest of the casino to always award the pot to the winning hand. If an establishment or dealer became known for regularly making that type of mistake, nobody would go there.
Actually this is like any other business in one sense: Buyer beware.

There are casinos I have decided not to play in. The Taj was one of them. It was because their management refused to train their staff to conduct a fair game. It probably cost me some money because the players there were so bad. But when management makes decisions that affect whether or not it is a fair game, I won't play. Similarly if management is incapable of making fair decisions because of incompetence and that incompetence is defended all the way to the top.

Look everybody is giving detailed proper responses because you’re a recreational player and seemed normal in the first few posts

As a former rec myself, I was gonna give a serious answer until you wrote “Borgata broke my poker heart”.

What the **** is wrong with you?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

lol

Thx for responses. Helping me become more aware player
Gl everyone in whatever games playing

You too Vineet.

These kinds of things are rare, especially at top flight poker rooms like Borgata. Don't let it put you off.

If this happens in a cash game usually the chips are locked up and they review it on camera - This doesn't happen in a tourney? Why was he not awarded the chips after the deal of the next hand?

Lots of reasons probably.

They can't lock up chips in a tourney. They also can't stop play at one table without stopping it all other tables.

The rules are clear that you have until the start of the next hand to protest.

The farther away you are from an event the less likely people will remember it clearly.

Having said all of that I was in a situation at FW where there was a clear problem. Guy next to me had won four or five hands in a row at the start of a tournament, chopping one of them, and yet he had less than starting chips.

He had protested during the chop that an error was being made and in fact the dealer had not chopped the pot evenly and re-did it and we thought all was OK.

But when we thought back on it, we realized that the "victim" had put in a 4-bet but his opponent had only put in the 3-bet and so the "victim" had been shorted half the of the 4-bet raise. We figured it to be about 3,000 chips.

The Floor heard the explanation and said that officially there was nothing he could do, but he urged the player who had received the extra chips to give the 3,000 to the "victim". Which he did.

So there can be justice way after the fact. But it takes people who are honorable.

The floor putting the onus on the player to 'do the right thing' is balls in this spot. What a weak willed copout, also in a tournament where trading chips should be one of the strictest things to police.

Small new twist here so I'll jump back in with info that's been in other threads but now applies ...

1) The rule is in place to draw a line of 'no return'. What is a reasonable amount of time if you want to go beyond the start of the next hand, whatever that may be for that room? (First riffle, pressing the green button on the shuffler, 1st card off the deck .. whatever)

2) I'm confused by the balls/copout comments as they seem opposite unless I'm missing your use of 'balls'. A Floor isn't weak for discussing the issue once it gets beyond repair per the rule and they've reviewed the video. In your case, you had left the table with who knows how many hands taking place (and the seat now filled with someone else)?

I've been at a cash table with a dispute like this one. Even though the Floor's hands were essentially tied by the rule (and maybe the 'gaming government' too), they gave the Player two choices. Either hand over the chips to the rightful Player or rack up and leave for 'x' amount of time. I've also seen the chips put to the side and given to the 'correct' Player as well. So you will see some differences by the room. But in these cases the dispute started during the very next hand, not many hands later, so the amount of residual 'damage' was pretty small ... like a Player losing those chips to someone else in the very next pot!!

3) In the 'trading chips' example the Floor was there to police it so it's not like the Players went about this on their own, with our without Dealer input. Once again, the Floor probably had zero 'by rule' recourse but leaned on a Player much like you might expect the police to lean on folks their chatting with or investigating.

4) The rules in a tournament need to be 'protected' more than a cash game, where a lot of disputes are one on one and the chips aren't 'casino money' either. It's pretty hard to get one horse back in the barn, much less corralling what might have been in the hands that took place afterwards. What if this had been a cash game and the BBJ hit two hands after you busted?

Lots of us jump to the extreme cases when making a point, but when you are dealing with cash and tournament chips, which should be precious to whom ever holds them, the rules need to be set up for the extremes. GL

I would vote for the Borgata refunding OP's buy-in. That doesn't change the outcome of the tournament, but it takes responsibility for a documented error. Plus, it's just good customer service.

Crazy that literally everyone missed it. Not saying the dealer or anything went too fast but this is the exact reason while SLOW and DELIBERATE at showdown is BEST.

like when im all in, my eyes never leave the board. sometimes i find myself if i bust just staring at the board for a few extra seconds. habit lol.

after ive confirmed ive won(if i lose its ezier) i make sure i get paid 100% correctly by letting the dealer count my stack and again, my eyes NEVER leave the stack whilst watching them count. I make sure they do it properly. its annoying to do this, but its a pattern i do and because of it ive never ****ed up on my hand, not once. even in a 3 or 4 day tourney.

its 100% just paying maximum attention.My phone could be blowing up ringing or buzzing and ill ignore it completely. Thats all you have to do.

ive had situations where this happens to others im playing with, but its always been caught by SOMEBODY. its mind blowing to me that everyone misread the board.

I want to say that telling the guy who likes to drink and have fun that instead he should blame himself and try harder at poker. Poker is supposed to be fun, something I do think many many people on these forums long forgot.

OP: The other posters in this thread arent wrong. I get your point WRT Ivey and roulette tables and all of it. I see under counts happen at the cage as well as the craps table color ups. I see misreads of the board and everything else. Its criminal what the casinos can get away with, but thats the way of the world. Fact is, Borgata is far less bad than usual, id even go so far as to say one of the best (even if thats a low bar).

Its true that the ultimate responsibility falls on you, as the loss is yours, but those of us try hard players have your back as well (or at least should). it is the responsibility of every single person watching a hand to announce a misread hand, and nobody caught it. I want to win, I try very very hard to win, but I do my best to check for people who are just trying to have a good time as well, so as a member of the poker community at large, im sorry this happened to you, because its unfortunate, and because there were several other players at the table who missed it as well. And im sure that to the degree the casino can be sorry, they are too.

It sucks, nobody wants it to happen, probably including seat 10 (unless he is a scumbag), but human error is unfortunately part of the game. I think you gotta accept that the error couldve gone either way and consider yourself unlucky that it got misread just like the 89 was unlucky that it came KK.

as a casino you're right.as a poker room you're wrong. while the room is very nice and it's great to get comped rooms for poker, it's embarrasing how bad a lot of the poker dealers there are.