As I already implied, I think the donk was showing even worse etiquette and wasting more time. We are mostly talking about the OP because he's the one who asked the question and is likely reading the answers. If the donk had posted the story, I guarantee everyone would have told him "show or muck, stop wasting everyone's time".

You are arguing that anything allowed by the rules must be good etiquette. Definitionally, angleshots are allowed by the rules.

There is no rule that says farting is allowed, but even if there were, that fact alone would not be enough to settle the etiquette of farting. The entire point is that its etiquette is independent from its mention or lack thereof in the rule book.

It's all about context, I dunno why you guys are going all over the place. Talking about the OP here. Anyways, already stated my position in the first post, I couldn't care less really.

I feel like the last half of this thread is a Scooby Doo chase scene in a hallway of doors where everyone is popping in an out of random doors, all while Benny Hill music plays.

Would the tone of the thread be the same if OP had quads/sf/nuts and was insisting on seeing V holding first?

That would be the epitome of a slow roll (at any speed once V showed) and yet 'allowed' within the rules.

Not everything is perfectly aligned ... common sense and etiquette don't always line up IMO either. GL

I thought etiquette was the topic, I mean, it's in the thread title and all that. But it might just be me.

It is possible for something to be both bad etiquette and fair play.

This is one of those, it is fair and within the rules to make a bluff called opponent who says " you caught me" and is shaking his head and holding out to muck instantly when he sees any card higher than an 8 show his high card "8 high" nothing vs your second nut flush.

But it's not particularly good for the game, and kind of " embarrasses" him or her for bluffing, and possibly discourages people from making moves in the future to not feel embarrassed when it doesn't work.

you have the right, but taking the player at their word and showing your AJ makes the game faster and happier for everyone involved. forcing someone to show what they claim and then showing better gives the game a grouchier, more competitive, less fun vibe.

always fastroll imo, its the tommy angelo way. makes the game better for everyone.

and as far as

the guy just put in 150bb preflop and told u he had a one pair hand including an 8. thats enough info to go off of in the near future. hes prob a little bit crazy and u gotta play accordingly.

now, if they claim a hand that you beat, you show, and they show you a hand that beats you, be prepared to wait forever for that person for the rest of their lives. i will have this happen to me a few times a year and they always claim ignorange (obv) and i'm gonna guess half the time they're genuine and half the time they aren't. if they're a super rec i just let them keep slowrolling me but if theyre a nit then theyre getting put in the penalty box.

or put it this way, anyone who 100% of the time waits for the other person to show is prob never getting invited to a good home game in their life

After saying he has an 8, how are you changing your strategy going forward if he has 8T, 8J or any other 8x?
This guy is never ever ever a good player/reg based on your description. Regs don’t 4b shove 8To with little to no FE. Regs are very familiar with showdowns and they will act accordingly, snap showing when first to show, not saying some random stuff about the hand.
You are definitely within rights to ask to see it. However, it’s only justifiable, IMO, if he said something vague like “think you’re good, I don’t have much” etc
Even than you can narrow down his range to a punt since he will always table a pocket pair, Ax to show how unlucky he got.
No offense, but this is exactly how I imagine people who open threads complaining about private games in casinos. And probably the reason private games exist in the first place. Having >0 social skills goes long way.

I very rairly ever ask to see their hand.
The reason is that it's always possible that he misread his hand and when you ask to see it he ends up turning over two pair and you lose. This has happened.
Just take the pot and be happy.