Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Casino & Cardroom Poker Discussions of the activities, rules and etiquette of Live Casino and Cardroom Poker Venues.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-06-2017, 11:33 AM   #101
dave88
grinder
 
dave88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: JKo
Posts: 416
Re: Assaulted at live game

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812 View Post
You have not cursed in a decade and this event broke your streak? I call bullpoop. OP not telling the whole story......
I have cursed. You are misconstruing what I said. I said I have not cursed at someone, and I haven't. I haven't said F you or you're an A hole or anything like that to someone irl in easily over a decade. Believe it or not.

Last edited by Rapini; 11-06-2017 at 11:56 AM.
dave88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 11:52 AM   #102
Riverine
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: On the riverbank
Posts: 84
Re: Assaulted at live game

It's a sign of how times have changed that this situation didn't escalate to barking iron.
Riverine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 11:57 AM   #103
answer20
Pooh-Bah
 
answer20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Corner of Walk/Don't Walk
Posts: 5,261
Re: Assaulted at live game

Lots of interesting wrinkles here ...

1) Although well within the 'rights' of a player to ask for squaring the table, I would suggest waiting until you actually take a seat before doing so. Just 'proving' that there's no room for you goes over better than being mistaken for plowing your way onto the table. You can also give the Dealer a 'knowing' look and let them handle their table.

2) Yes, I found it odd that 'this' would generate the extreme comment from OP. I always state that when someone reaches their limit that 80% of the steam came from other events and someone else was the last straw. OP, you were changing tables, Why? (Could be nothing)

3) I also find it odd that you were able to stay and play (if you did). Usually both parties in an incident are asked to leave (at least for the day). Even if someone is totally not at fault I've seen them asked to leave to reduce the overall mood in the room.

4) I do tend to agree with a shift in the dynamic of each generation. We are no longer in an era where playground fights occur 'daily' and are an acceptable form of pride and preservation. It appears that taking legal action provides much more personal satisfaction to 'victims'. I would tend to agree that a much larger percentage of our up and coming generations are 'softer' than previous simply because they haven't experienced a 'true' national event (world war) and in society's effort to protect the weakest it has opened up the door to erode the previous baseline for lots of 'standards'.

5) A factor in 'pressing charges' is that your name is even further involved in the event. This probably wont be a stiff charge or penalty, but it could open the door for retaliation by the accused later. The video tape in this case may lead to a plea that wont require any further participation by the OP, but he most certainly would be involved in a trial setting. On the flip side, by pushing the legal system as far as you can it may deter any future issues as well. I think it's much better to get things documented for future use even if you want to keep things as quiet as possible right now. GL (Page 5)
answer20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 12:35 PM   #104
Playbig2000
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Playbig2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Suffern, NY
Posts: 6,713
Re: Assaulted at live game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Zee View Post
in real life you are going to find people that will get will pissed off from being told that. and yes occasionally they will get physical or threaten it. dont ever curse at a stranger. sooner or later it will bite you badly. same as flipping someone off.

of course op is right but did the wrong thing. and people have been killed for less.
and pressing charges against an aggressive stranger might make you have to watch your back for a long time and not worth it.
+1

If it was me, I would have probably let it go, rather than have some psycho know who I am through court records or his attorney, especially since I was the one who instigated it. No one knows how close the OP put his chips to the other guy as he demanded the dealer "square the table please".

I understand OP might have been on tilt from being stuck as he asked for a table change, so he might not have been in the happiest mood to begin with. This is a case of two wrongs that don't make a right.

When I come over to new games and I need more room, I first wait for the current hand to end. Then I calmly and politely ask the culprit "Hey whats up can I get some more room over here". If he doesn't cooperate, then I look to the dealer for help. It's obviously ok to first ask the dealer, but I never had a problem asking the player first but for the player to knock over OP's chips, there must have been something in either his tone when he asked the dealer to square him up, or he put his chips right in someone's space first, before trying to get him to move over.

Last edited by Playbig2000; 11-06-2017 at 12:42 PM. Reason: 2p2 TOS
Playbig2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 12:43 PM   #105
dave88
grinder
 
dave88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: JKo
Posts: 416
Re: Assaulted at live game

Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20 View Post
Lots of interesting wrinkles here ...

1) Although well within the 'rights' of a player to ask for squaring the table, I would suggest waiting until you actually take a seat before doing so. Just 'proving' that there's no room for you goes over better than being mistaken for plowing your way onto the table. You can also give the Dealer a 'knowing' look and let them handle their table.
It seemed the perfect time, between hands. There was obviously too little space. I do like your "knowing look" suggestion though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20 View Post
2) Yes, I found it odd that 'this' would generate the extreme comment from OP. I always state that when someone reaches their limit that 80% of the steam came from other events and someone else was the last straw. OP, you were changing tables, Why? (Could be nothing)
I'm not sure what you mean by "this"? He reached over and angrily pushed my chips aside. Is that what you mean by "this"?

I was moving to a higher limit table. I was not steaming, stressed, or "stuck".

Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20 View Post
3) I also find it odd that you were able to stay and play (if you did). Usually both parties in an incident are asked to leave (at least for the day). Even if someone is totally not at fault I've seen them asked to leave to reduce the overall mood in the room.
I did stay and play. I never made any aggressive move at all towards the guy. In fact as he was grabbing me I'm pretty sure I put my arm out and tried to back away, as far as I could anyway. They reviewed the video and saw him push my chips and then assault me. No one else at the table seemed upset by me, in fact they defended me when I said "I never touched him". I was honest with them and told them that I said "F you man" after he handled my chips. There was a security station 10 feet away and the guy stationed there saw that I was trying to avoid escalation as he was assaulting me. I never raised my voice, and I never touched the man.

Also, I think he had a history of previous altercations. I know I saw him involved in at least one heated exchange that involved knocking a chair over.

Last edited by dave88; 11-06-2017 at 12:50 PM.
dave88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 12:48 PM   #106
dave88
grinder
 
dave88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: JKo
Posts: 416
Re: Assaulted at live game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000 View Post
+1

If it was me, I would have probably let it go, rather than have some psycho know who I am through court records or his attorney, especially since I was the one who instigated it. No one knows how close the OP put his chips to the other guy as he demanded the dealer "square the table please".

I understand OP might have been on tilt from being stuck as he asked for a table change, so he might not have been in the happiest mood to begin with. This is a case of two wrongs that don't make a right.
I did not instigate it, he did when he handled my chips.

I set my chips directly in front of me in the middle of the available space.

I did not "demand" anything. I asked nicely "square the table please".

I was not on tilt, or stuck, I was in fine spirits, as usual.
The table change was a change in limits.

I can see that I'm not going to get a fair shake from some of you, and that's fine.

So you guys can carry on without me.

Peace

Last edited by dave88; 11-06-2017 at 12:57 PM.
dave88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 01:01 PM   #107
pig4bill
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 26,714
Re: Assaulted at live game

Fair shake? It's because you only see things one way - that you're right. Why even make this thread if you're so sure you're right? Only expecting validation?

FWIW I agree w/Howard. There's a good chance the DA will say you escalated things and drop it, or worse (for you). Especially if you are so much bigger than the other guy as you say.
pig4bill is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 01:23 PM   #108
dave88
grinder
 
dave88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: JKo
Posts: 416
Re: Assaulted at live game

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig4bill View Post
Fair shake? It's because you only see things one way - that you're right. Why even make this thread if you're so sure you're right? Only expecting validation?

FWIW I agree w/Howard. There's a good chance the DA will say you escalated things and drop it, or worse (for you). Especially if you are so much bigger than the other guy as you say.
I do see things from my perspective, yes.

No biggie, I don't need any validation. I do appreciate some of the comments though. Thanks Fossilman, I particularly appreciated your input.

I find myself answering the same questions, so I'm done. The thread is played out imo. I will not be drawn into arguments, or defend myself repeatedly any more than I already have.

I said what I had to say. I don't see anything positive, or helpful coming from conversing with some of you any further. I'm not upset or anything, I'm just done.

Catch you on the flipside.
dave88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 01:57 PM   #109
King Spew
Cha Cha Cha Cha
 
King Spew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Changes
Posts: 10,811
Re: Assaulted at live game

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
This leads to my reasoning that younger people are less likely to fight back and more likely to press charges. Times have changed. The older guys wouldve been more likely to fight back and then be done with it because thats how these things were handled when they were younger before times changed
AARP here. Relevant words are "times have changed".

While "we" once might have returned the physicality.... we don't do so now in this litigious society....or worse, encounter someone with superior weaponry. So to your argument Mike, you can't say that old guys would fight back nowadays.

I would make sure "this guy" gets booted with a paper trail. For my own safety and that of others.
King Spew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 02:05 PM   #110
Playbig2000
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Playbig2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Suffern, NY
Posts: 6,713
Re: Assaulted at live game

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave88 View Post
I find myself answering the same questions, so I'm done. The thread is played out imo. I will not be drawn into arguments, or defend myself repeatedly any more than I already have.
I'm not trying to create an argument with you, I'm just trying to see if there was something you could have done to prevent yourself from being physically attacked. This isn't an argument, it's just a friendly educational debate.

I can't see the guy pushing your chips over if you placed them in the middle of the available space. Did you mean you placed them in front of where you're seat is supposed to be, but they were very close to his chips? Maybe you should have held onto your chips until the dealer moved the players over?

I mean when you say **** ***! to someone, even if he was wrong for pushing your chips over (which he was), things are not usually going to end too good at all, to say the very least.
Playbig2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 02:29 PM   #111
dave88
grinder
 
dave88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: JKo
Posts: 416
Re: Assaulted at live game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000 View Post
I can't see the guy pushing your chips over if you placed them in the middle of the available space. Did you mean you placed them in front of where you're seat is supposed to be, but they were very close to his chips?
I meant exactly what I said. My chips were no closer to him than they were to the player on my right.

You can't see it because you weren't there. I was as surprised as anyone else would be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000 View Post
I mean when you say **** ***! to someone, even if he was wrong for pushing your chips over (which he was), things are not usually going to end too good at all, to say the very least.
lol, true enough.

Like I said, I would probably say something different if I had a do over. But I also don't feel my comment was out of line given what he had just done.

But you see again I am repeating myself and essentially facing accusations that I am lying.

I don't think it was a mistake to create the thread, but I do think it would be a mistake to continue any further.

dave
dave88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 03:23 PM   #112
Bene Gesserit
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Bene Gesserit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: my old Kentucky Home
Posts: 6,063
Re: Assaulted at live game

You are correct to let this thread go. There is not a whole lot more to cover IMHO. Let any other posters comment on this at will, but if I were you , I would just quit posting on this subject and move on.
Bene Gesserit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 08:40 PM   #113
MikeStarr
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 4,512
Re: Assaulted at live game

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Spew View Post
AARP here. Relevant words are "times have changed".

While "we" once might have returned the physicality.... we don't do so now in this litigious society....or worse, encounter someone with superior weaponry. So to your argument Mike, you can't say that old guys would fight back nowadays.

I would make sure "this guy" gets booted with a paper trail. For my own safety and that of others.
Would you press charges? Im guessing No. Whether you fought back or not, my point is that I think older guys are less likely to press charges than younger guys. Ill use 45 as my over/under line for older/younger guys
MikeStarr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 08:46 PM   #114
BDHarrison
old hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,309
Re: Assaulted at live game

How many times do I need to let the other guy hit me before I fight back so that I don't run the risk of getting banned from the poker room or arrested? Assume that my plan is to break his leg, preferably a compound fracture. I don't engage in "playground fights". I don't get in shoving matches. I only fight with the intention to seriously injure.
BDHarrison is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 08:57 PM   #115
Mr Rick
Pooh-Bah
 
Mr Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,978
Re: Assaulted at live game

I'd have to think long and hard about pressing charges. I have two kids and a wife. Given what happened I would be torn. The guy is clearly a ticking time bomb. And pressing charges could make it easier to convict him at a later time. But it probably wouldn't make much of a difference. If he gets caught doing something truly terrible they likely wouldn't need your case in order to get a guilty verdict. And I doubt you getting him charged will have a settling influence on him. He will still be ticking.

Also, the fact that he got perma-banned would be the punishment I would be looking for. And the safety in the poker room.

Turning to your behavior OP I used to react that way to strangers who did things that left me feeling angry (threatened). I flipped a guy off in my car and had to spend the next 5 minutes with him riding my bumper. Similarly when I honked my horn aggressively to show my displeasure.

I have learned that taking aggressive action through words or my middle finger can have extremely negative consequences for me. Its not worth it.

Similarly I will never respond to somebody I have just knocked out in a tourney. There are no good outcomes for me.

The irony is that even if you had done everything perfectly he still might have chosen to attack you. Some people are sick that way. Still in the future I would not drop an F bomb on a potentially volatile person. And of course if he hadn't attacked you, you might have had to take a walk because the F bomb is a verbal thing that isn't tolerated in the poker room.
Mr Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 09:41 PM   #116
callipygian
slowrolled by tpiranha!
 
callipygian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: but I don't know which
Posts: 18,611
Re: Assaulted at live game

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDHarrison View Post
How many times do I need to let the other guy hit me before I fight back so that I don't run the risk of getting banned from the poker room or arrested?
Depends how hard he's hitting you.

Keep in mind whoever wins the fistfight is more likely to get permabanned, regardless of who started it.

So if he's not hitting you very hard - let's say for the sake of example someone doesn't even cause injuries severe enough to stop your poker session and go home / to the hospital - your best bet is to let him hit you until security arrives, or fight just enough to keep him at a distance he can't do serious damage.

And if he's causing you actual harm - like something where you're gonna have to go to the hospital or even just call it a night - then, sure, retaliate as necessary.

Like I said, some of you are taking getting punched in the face way too seriously.
callipygian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 11:16 PM   #117
dingusmcphee
enthusiast
 
dingusmcphee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 82
Re: Assaulted at live game

I think the OP is in the right and should press charges.

Pretend this was a fast food restaurant counter. You come up to the register and the last guy to order won't move out of the way. You say excuse me, he doesn't move. You order and put your money on the counter for the worker and he violently shoves it aside.

I don't see swearing at him as out of line; he just assaulted you (depending on the state). Now he batters you by grabbing your neck! Next, he threatens to really hurt you. Jail should be in his future!

Outside the sociopathic cesspit that is casino poker, this kind of behavior (shoving other people's money/ property, choking, threatening) is obviously illegal.
dingusmcphee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 11:31 PM   #118
Ray Zee
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: montana usa
Posts: 13,130
Re: Assaulted at live game

you would be reacting to him by getting even so to speak. not wrong of course but you just escalated the situation as it is his turn now to get even in his mind. and after pressing charges he gets to find out your name and where you live.
Ray Zee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 11:37 PM   #119
Rapini
Monte Crisco
 
Rapini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: DC
Posts: 11,610
Re: Assaulted at live game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Zee View Post
you would be reacting to him by getting even so to speak. not wrong of course but you just escalated the situation as it is his turn now to get even in his mind. and after pressing charges he gets to find out your name and where you live.
And don't forget about the restraining order.
Rapini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2017, 01:09 AM   #120
jjjou812
old hand
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,751
Re: Assaulted at live game

Dave88, i was needling you with my second post and i should not have done it. The other guy was clearly wrong to escalate it to a physical confrontation. There are plenty of reasons to fight- squaring a table is not one of them. It is childish.

Unless this guy has a record for this type of behavior, it is not worth your time to pursue a criminal remedy for the minor bruising on your neck. You have better things to do. He is banned from the room. I dont see why you need a restraining order nor want to waste time in court.
jjjou812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2017, 01:17 AM   #121
BDHarrison
old hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,309
Re: Assaulted at live game

Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
So if he's not hitting you very hard - let's say for the sake of example someone doesn't even cause injuries severe enough to stop your poker session and go home / to the hospital - your best bet is to let him hit you until security arrives, or fight just enough to keep him at a distance he can't do serious damage.
I'd probably go for a kick in the balls, then. It won't cause serious damage to anything important. It's how I ended my last few fights.
BDHarrison is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2017, 01:39 AM   #122
jjjou812
old hand
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,751
Re: Assaulted at live game

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDHarrison View Post
I'd probably go for a kick in the balls, then. It won't cause serious damage to anything important. It's how I ended my last few fights.
The only way a girl or child can win a fight. So much for you winning Man of the Year or Man of anything. Ever.
jjjou812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2017, 02:34 AM   #123
RJT
veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: East of Eden
Posts: 3,303
Re: Assaulted at live game

a derail here (don't want to imply it's anyone's fault but the villain in the OP) but...

I can count the times on one hand (maybe both) when I've asked a dealer to square the table and he actually 1) succeeds or 2) made more than a half-hearted attempt to do so. I get the "ok left side needs to move". What usually happens is the 2 seat moves appropriately and everyone else still hugs the 5 seat's space. Dealer goes back to dealing. No offense to the good dealers here, but it happens more often than not in my experience.

And I'm always "that guy" (who wants his own space).

And no answer20 - I don't wait until I'm seated. If the dealer can't tell there's no room and needs me seated to prove it, I dunno what to say. I put my chips down like the OP did. Once the table is square, I take my seat. If nothing happens, I go for a 5 minute break.
RJT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2017, 02:42 AM   #124
BackDoorFlush
old hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,839
Re: Assaulted at live game

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDHarrison View Post
I'd probably go for a kick in the balls, then. It won't cause serious damage to anything important. It's how I ended my last few fights.
Epic fail.
BackDoorFlush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2017, 02:50 AM   #125
Steve00007
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,497
Re: Assaulted at live game

Assuming this guy gets banned, what’s to stop him from coming back? Just because he gets a ban, that doesn’t mean he will care or take it seriously. He won’t always get recognized and the employees aren’t always going to care.
Steve00007 is online now   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online