One thing I am not at the poker table is an angler. I might play with my chips or ask you a stupid question to try and get a tell but I generally know the line and I don't cross it.

Tonight playing 1-2 at a very talkative, loose, happy, drink-heavy table. Almost a dream table. I'm up about 250 and in cruise control, planning to leave shortly.

I pick up J10 of clubs UTG and limp. UTG+1 limps along. Small blind calls a dollar and BB checks. We take a Q35 flop with 1 club. BB bets 5. I decide to float for all sorts of backdoor goodies since we both are relatively deep (450+ each). UTG+1 min raises to 10. BB calls so I obv call. Turn I believe was a 6. It checks around. Jack river. Checks again and UTG+1 bets 20 into about 35. BB folds and I sigh and flip my jack over right on top of my other card. UTG+1 must of thought I was folding or had already folded and immediately says "ok I'll show it this time." Turning over 45 for just a pair of 5s while tossing his cards face up toward the muck.

As I shoot the dealer a look she looks confused but looks like she wants to start mucking. And I quickly remind her "wait I haven't folded yet. My hand is still live right?" I keep looking at his cards, then the board, making sure he really does only have a pair of 5s as the dealer says something like "I think it's still a live hand, let me call the floor." I remind her that I've played here numerous times and have seen people show a card heads up numerous times and not once seen anyone get scolded or the hand ruled dead. It actually happened at my table the night before at the same place.

Floor comes over and says something to the tune of "It's a live hand you can call, fold, or raise, but don't show your cards again." I remind him that I've played here before and have seen this happen numerous times and if I knew or thought it was against the rules I never would have done it. Floor tells me "Yeah people do it all the time, we tell them it's a live hand but don't do it again. If they complain about that we suggest that they play elsewhere."

I reply "Ok fair enough. I didn't know. Sorry, it won't happen again."

Meanwhile UTG+1 is clearly frustrated and politicking for a fold. Telling me "You know you were about to fold anyway." I tell him "You're probably right, but I haven't yet." So I obv end up calling and taking the pot down.

I apologize up and down to the man telling him I'm sorry but if it were the other way around and I exposed my hand when someone had me beat, I know they would call 100% of the time. Dude is very frustrated and tension quickly builds.

Table goes from one of the chattiest tables I've played at in a month to DEAD SILENCE for atleast 10 minutes afterword which really made me feel like a dick.

So anyway I want to know what the consensus is on this. I felt like a completely ahole but I'm sorry the guy made a mistake and exposed his hand. I am a really nice person in day to day life but when it comes to poker I get a little cut-throat, which I think is necessary to excel at the game.

Dueshy move? Angle? Or did I do the right thing?

Haha well played. Definitely his mistake. Tid

If you truly were folding, then yes, yes and no.

Calling once you're in that spot isn't douchey. Turning over your jack without immediately folding is insanely douchey.

depends on the sigh and if u moved ur cards forward imo, but its still his fault for not bein sure you folded

No, the correct move is to raise.

Take the pot, give him back his $20 river bet and say "Sorry for the confusion". Then he feels like he got something and you did something nice which you certainly didn't have to do. Both of you feel ok about it and can go back to being friendly.

Short-term gain...long-term pain.

You just changed the table dynamics, which were favorable, to highly unfavorable, and put a huge target on your back. You're a reg there, and likley play with many of these players often...they won't forget this.

Nothing against the rules (perhaps room-dependent) or unethical, but this is exactly why I hate that turning your cards over while still in play is within the rules. I can't understand the logic behind "It's against the rules to verbally declare your exact holding before showdown, but it's not against the rules to visually expose your exact holding." Further, while not your intent, doing so here induced an action which clearly effected the hand.

If OP didn't announce fold or move his cards forward as if mucking, I see nothing douchey about him flipping his jack over and then calling when the other player showed inferior holdings. I see this all of the time where a player flips one card over to see the reaction on the other person's face. Usually this move is followed by a fold by the flipper but that is irrelevant. The other player made the mistake by not paying attention to what was going on and turning his hand over, thinking OP had folded. I see nothing wrong with OP's play and neither would any poker room I have played in.

first ..... your use of a word that you can't come close to spelling correctly qualifies you as a douche.

As to the action in the hand ..... its not entirely clear to me what you did. You say you exposed one card .... but I have seen this done in different ways. If you did this while tossing your cards forward it is a very different situation then if you did this while still holding onto your cards.

Why did you expose your J and why didn't you say something when he said OK I'll show this time? What I mean is this was obv you taking advantage of the situation so it's understandable that the guy was pissed cuz you shot an angle. Furthermore by the way you described your interaction with the floor he basically said if you do this again they'll be consequences.

Yea I'd qualify this as an angle shot and a douchey move.

I don't think it's douchey to show cards to try get a read or to confuse your opponent, it can be a fun thing to do at a table that's having fun. You should, however, make it clear that you're not folding yet. Just say "I'm not folding, I'm gonna show one card".
Now everybody knows that you weren't angling to make your opponent show his hand. I also understand the argument against showing cards in cash games as well, but I still think there is a time and place for it that makes poker a joy to play.

Well I always thought you had to say" fold" or something similiar, OR toss your cards to the dealer OR the muck. Otherwise the hand is still live. Seems like sometimes people get a little ahead of themselves and they should pay a small price for that. If the room advises against showing cards early then simply don't do it. It doesn't really work very well most of the time at your (my) level anyway!

If you were calling the flop bet to float, where was the raise?
Why show the jack? Why can't you just play the hand through instead of trying to be suave or cool? Why complicate things?
At the casino I play at, if you pulled that move your hand would be dead.

I'm ok with people showing cards to get a read. I'm not ok with people confusing others into believing they've folded by showing cards. And since soooo many newbs are confused by people showing cards, if you're really trying to not angle shoot you will make it crystal clear to all concerned that you are not conceding yet, you're just showing a card.

OP didn't do that. And he says he even confused the dealer. And he didn't do anything to try to unconfuse his opponent.

Don't do that.

His mistake. He should know the rules and ascertain whether or not you've folded before he decides to show his hand.

That being said, showing your hand here is pretty corny and unnecessary. Also, if you feel you were in the right to do this, and that the rules allowed it, and that you'd seen it done before, why stammer apologies to the guy? If you're in the right, you don't need to apologize for anything.

+1

Also, based on personal observation, when you have to ask if it's douchey/an angleshoot, you're usually in the grey at best.

Why the "sigh" and showing a card, unless you were trying to get a reaction? According to the floor, showing a card isn't allowed. Since you are a reg there, and both you and the floor note that it often occurs, unless the floor is full of crap that they warn people, it would seem you should know that. If you weren't angle-shooting, why not say something when dude says he's going to show "one-time?" Sounds like the "cut-throat" part got the better of you. If not pure angle-shooting, then I'll agree with the tables reaction that you were a douche in that particular situation.

If you are showing your hand with the intention to fold show it in the air and toss it in the muck

If you are showing your hand to get a reaction you are a duesh because at best you are slowing down the game and wasting every players time

Nope not douchey at all, he made the mistake of showing you his hand before the action was over. I've had it happen before with an extremely drunk guy at 1-2 and we were each 500BB deep. He was shoving every hand and I had turned the nuts but put him on a flush draw and river came a flush and he insta went all in for like 500BB. I said man that card sucked and flipped over my turned broadway. He said ahh well you got me all I got is bottom pair and flipped up his hand. I instantly said call and scooped the pot, and felt great about it.

PS: Before I flipped up my cards I said I'm not folding. I will rarely if ever not say I'm not folding before flipping up my cards like this mostly to protect the dealer from mucking my cards.

as far as im concerned, the table is a battlefield, and all is fair in love and war. With poker it has to be within the rules of course but the guy made a mistake. we like fish because they make mistakes. the way to make money playing poker is not to outplay everyone but wait for your opponents to make mistakes. I probably would have raised just to mess with the guy and put him on tilt. but i do agree with what some other poster said about it changing the table dynamic. so it all comes down to what you would like to happen in the long run. Do you care about how these people who will see you regularly think about you? If not then call or raise, but if you'd prefer the game stay as friendly as possible because you think you have more of an edge that way then i probably would have split the pot with him, but thats the best anyone would get out of me and it would be completely dependent on my mood, whether or not i was up or down, whether i knew or liked the guy etc...

Unfortunately, and in the interest of honesty, yes, you were a "deush" in this situation.

It's great that you're concerned about your behavior, and that you asked - but you already know the answer. You can't undo what you did, but you'll feel better about yourself going forward if you fly straight. One angle-shot doesn't define who you are.

3 Questions?

[ ] Ed Hardy
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[ ] Hooded Sweatshirt

Douche move especially since you apologized for making it. Play the game and respect it.

But if someone is a moron like the V? They deserve to lose the pot

The rules of your cardroom are obv the rules but if I saw somebody that had $10 invested in a small pot do what you did I'd think that he was a duesh.

Yesh.

You intended to fold. You made a move that got the opponent to show his cards. And then took advantage of him.