Right it isn't like they don't have 5 1-3 games right now.

Yes they do and have for a long time.

At least over a year ago. Could have been well before that.

This hand should be played out as normal. Card found in the machine goes in the muck. In my room this would only void the BBJ, but the hand would still play out.

Would you still take the BBJ drop for that hand?

Would anyone but you notice/care if we did?

Honestly, I wouldn't notice either if you didn't mention to the table that the hand will not be BBJ eligible.

If you would mention it, I think some players would check for that. Chainsaw would probably even make a NVG thread about it.

Ahhh, now this thread is getting entertaining......

They'd notice if it hit, especially if there were a chip on the BBJ drop.

They would have a lot more to be upset about if it hit on that hand than that dollar on the drop slot.

The answer is no, we should not drop that dollar on that hand, but I would guess it would get dropped because no one would even think about it. Including the dealer and floor.

They would say the hand had to be eligible for the BBJ since the dollar was placed on the drop slot.

That one might end up in front of a judge.

To the poster that said they thought this situation was made up bc of the lol procedure, an almost identical situation happened in my local room not too long ago (not Harrahs NO). While I agree that the procedure is bad, there are break in dealers and poorly managed rooms everywhere.

I agree with the poster that said it doesn't really matter if the room's policy is to void it or not, as long as it is consistent.

I don't understand why the floor would expose the card if it hadn't been exposed already.

Doubt it. It is clearly stated in the BBJ rules that it voids the BBJ. The dealer accidentally putting $1 there doesn't change that. If the dealer dropped it and it was pointed out, the house would pay the $1 back out of the rack.

So for the record, your real answer to the question


of

should instead be read as "We shouldn't, but it is likely that the dealer would mistakenly drop it and even more likely that no one would even notice", instead of your joking-to-madlex response that made you look like you didn't care

Yep...

shoot I somehow missed that post. sorry, bud.

I'm shocked and horrified that most people here (some of whom apparently run card rooms) think it's ok to play this hand out as if nothing happened. The deck is fouled, the hand was dealt unfairly, all bets should be returned and a thorough investigation conducted. I thought my room was bad, but after seeing how many other rooms are willing to let a 51 card deck be used I suddenly feel blessed. I'm getting a sick feeling just imagining myself at the mercy of such ignorant barbarians.

I still regret how I handled the following similar situation a while back. The dealer was hand shuffling and was having a conversation with, and looking directly at, the 5 seat while shuffling. I'm in the 10 seat and I watch incredulously as a single card sits off to the side as she shuffles. After finishing shuffling the 51 cards the dealer looks down to cut the deck and notices the singleton sitting off to the side. She takes the isolated card, places it on top of the deck, cuts, and begins dealing. I thought I was having a nightmare. I immediately brought it to her attention while she was still dealing, but being the **** that she is she ignored me. The other players were all oblivious and didn't notice anything (as usual), and they started acting on their hands while I was still protesting. I'm in middle position and now the action is on me. I stop the action and again state that the deck wasn't shuffled and that it's a misdeal. I ended up getting shouted down by one of the idiot managers. Later a different manager came over and mollycoddled me into not reporting it to gaming. I really should have, as this was a very serious violation of procedure and a dangerously easy way for the dealer to cheat, and could have resulted in a huge fine and serious butthurt for the casino.

joel you need to, like, chill out.

Sorry Joel but you over-reacted to that entire situation.

Meaning what, exactly?

Life must be miserable, joel.

The hand was dealt unfairly? To who?

Huge fine? easy way for the dealer to cheat? geez, you seriously need to chill out.

You say the hand was dealt unfairly. Can you elaborate on how it was unfair? Which players had an advantage and which ones had a disadvantage?

There is an important reason we don't let a deck which is short a card invalidate the hand ...... it becomes a pretty simple freeroll for a player who sees a card get left out of the deck (or more heinously hides a card). I see a card on the floor. I play the hand aggressively trying to take it down with a bet If this doesn't work and I don't have a winner ..... suddenly I notice the card on the floor .... ask that they invalidate the hand and get all my money back.


Yes you are right about this .... but isn't this the second post you have made where you say notified the dealer about an irregularity and they just ignored you (I apologize if that wasn't you in the other thread). That strikes me as very odd. I can't say that I have ever seen this happen ... yet it keeps happening to you. Perhaps you are not being as clear when you speak to the dealer as you think?

The hand should be played out with the card in the muck, not as a burn IMO.

Do we void a hand if a late position player gets 3 cards and there is 'significant action' before it comes out? Not that I know of.

There are plenty of reasons to void a BBJ in a legit hand, so voiding it here really shouldn't surprise anyone .. it changed the cut and therefore could've changed the deal.

As far as dropping the dollar in a 'void' hand ... As long as the minimum pot has been met I can see the drop being made. BBJ hands can be voided 'by the players' well after a drop has been established. Most dealers don't drop until the hand is over, but some drop 'asap' ... how would you police something like that. (without resorting to 'training').

There has to be a difference between 'significant action' and 'pushing the pot' to determine certain points of 'no return' ... GL

I don't see how playing with a deck whose composition is not what the players think it is is fair in any way whatsoever. Isn't this obvious? Players are risking lots of money based on assumptions about probabilities of cards hitting. If one of my cards can't possibly hit because it's in the shuffle machine, how is it anything but unfair to me?

I really think this whole discussion is moot and superfluous. The game is played with one 52 card deck, period, not sometimes with 51 cards and some random card missing. End of story.

No, actually I'm abundantly clear in all my communications. It's just that the people in charge are power wielding, arrogant, stuck up scum who don't give a **** about doing the right thing. Is it really so difficult to believe that? People with power abuse it, it's (primitive) human nature. What do you think is the underlying psychological explanations for inexplicable police brutality? Especially in the last few months.

The reason it isn't unfair to you is because it is missing for all players who all had an equal chance of needing that card.

I don't know where you play... but I am faced with a choice here.... I can either believe that you play in some place where poker dealers run roughshod over players. Or based on my experience of never having seen such a thing assume that you have a skewed perspective.

I know which one strikes me as more reasonable.