This hardly seems threadworthy, but I couldn't find a thread that addressed it directly.

Playing in a self-dealt charity donkament at an American Legion hall. I'm dealing. A couple of limpers, then the SB raises without verbalizing. Action folds back to the open limper who is at the opposite end of the table and is looking at the raise quizzically. I say "raise. 2,800. 2,000 more."

After the hand I get berated for announcing the size without him asking, which I'm told is "against the rules." I say "I was taught to clarify the action, but if you guys prefer me to wait to be asked, that's fine." The berator says "it's not what we prefer, It's the rules." I respond, "OK, if you have a house-rule about that, that's fine." He says "that's not a house rule, that's a casino rule. That's the rule everywhere!" I respond that it's definitely not the rule everywhere, but as I'd said before, I'd do it their way, not worth fighting over.

Well this gets the guy very worked up, and insistent. He won't shut up about it, and calls the game-runner over to confirm that it's "the rule." Game-runner says yes, that's in the rules. I ask if they are using RROP, and he says he's never heard of it. He then claims it is in the TDA rules. As far as I can tell, this is not true.

I presume this is a misunderstanding of Rule 60, in regard to counting stacks in All-Ins ("Players are entitled to a reasonable estimation of opponents’ chip stacks (Rule 25). A player may request a more precise count only if facing an all-in bet and it is his or her turn to act. The all-in player is not required to count; on request the dealer or floor will count it."), but I'm not sure, and definitely didn't want to prolong this nonsense by asking at the time.

Does anyone have a different idea what they might have been talking about? I know that procedure-wise (not rules-wise) this varies in various rooms in cash games, with some arguing for clarifying to speed up the game and others arguing for minimizing dealer "interference" in the game. Not sure about donkaments.

I don’t know the official rule, but dealers are only supposed to announce the bet size when asked.They are always supposed to announce the raise, just not the size of the bet. Otherwise they would have to break down every bet and it would slow the game down. This is part of the reason why oversized chips have to be on top of the stack. I usually ask the dealer the bet amount just to be safe.

Some dealers announce the size of the bet and others don’t. I prefer them not

You were correct. He was wrong. He is one of these people that thinks he is never wrong and just loves to prove he is right and also my favorite person to prove wrong. You let him off the hook way too easy. Also, it is not a TDA rule. It is a house-specific rule.

Yeah, I couldn't find anything in TDA on it. Just wondering if his claim was based on anything at all, or just made up whole cloth.

So dealers are supposed to announce the size of every bet? I’m glad they don’t do that at my casino. Seeems like a waste of time to keep breaking down stacks when no one asked an exact amount.

domgio is sharing both what he believes dealers are supposed to do and what he prefers they do, which happen to be the same. He’s not contradicting himself. I agree that they are supposed to wait to be asked, but I don’t care if they do, especially if not waiting moves the game (such as when a player is looking at a bet quizzically).

The objecting player is wrong, and I love knowing he got upset over this.

There is a vast middle ground between "always" and "never".

Based on what, if I might ask? I mean, I can see it as a preference, but I don't think I've ever seen it as a formal procedure, much less a rule.

If there are dealer procedures out there that say that, I'd love to hear about them, even if they are not universal.

Fwiw, we are specifically reminded not to announce bet sizes before we deal larger buy-in tournaments.

We are not reminded of this before our daily donkaments, and frequently dealers call out bet sizes in these to speed up the game. I have heard a total of zero players ever giving a **** if a dealer announces a bet size in these in over a dozen years of dealing, so take that as you will.

Also, if you are dealing in a self-dealt tournament and someone is bitching at you like this, you are allowed to tell them to shove it up their ass. That's located in the TDA rules as well.

At the casino I play, I was told the house rule is to announce only the action 'raise', 'fold', etc. The dealer will verbalize an announced amount, especially if it is different than the amount of chips moved forward. I have no idea if that rule is universal.

What I was taught: announce 'bet' or 'raise' if a player bets or raises without verbalizing an amount or repeat what the player verbalized if they said an amount/correct it if the amount is invalid. If action has moved fast enough don't say boo. Note: 99% of my dealing over almost 20 years was LHE and high-only LIMIT Omaha.

For donkaments there was no official policy (that anyone could find - our rulebook for poker is what it was 20 years ago + 20 years worth of memos. You would need to hire KPMG or someone like that to audit it and get a concrete answer). If the bet/raise was very obvious most dealers announced it. If the player facing the bet seemed to be taking more time than needed, announcing the bet/raise or breaking it down and announcing the total were likely to happen.

In bigger tournaments there was generally a lot less announcing of bet/raise amounts and breakdowns without asking by the dealer. The expectations of players has changed A LOT on this over time. 10-15 years ago most players got pissed off if you did it. Now most players expect it and actually complain about dealers who are orders of magnitude better in every other aspect but are old school about this.

At a self dealt tournament if that's the only thing they complained about I hear there are openings in the SW if you're interested in a job.

Oh man Ive played in these types of games though. The Lions Club has a poker night I play at sometimes. Its mostly guys who learned poker in vatious homegames and think those are the rules. Last time I was there a big argument broke out over whether check/raise was allowed.

Here's MY rule: when the game stops because someone is squinting and turning their heads sideways trying to ballpark a bet, I just count it.

The floors at the casino I work for have always told me that you’re not supposed to announce the bet size in no limit, unless asked. Limit games are different. This was also the case at the WSOP when I dealt it.

I do know that you’re never supposed to announce the amount of an all in, unless asked.

I also agree that if you’re playing in a self-dealt charity game, it’s probably easier and much more practical to just announce the size of the bet because I could easily see a lot of beginners getting confused.

However, I think that you should not say “2000 more” as that could be interpreted as influencing action.

WSOP and circuit events I was taught not to count bet sizes until a player asks while it's their turn. If a players says a bet size out loud I repeat it to eliminate any confusion about what was said.

In cash games the players expect me to count out all bets so I do so unless it looks like the other players are folding. In bigger games I tend not to do this unless the players ask.

What is the reasoning behind dealers not calling out the bet size? When I'm on the opposite end of the table from the bettor I find myself asking on every single street "how much is that?" and only then does the dealer tell me the bet size. It's not a big deal but it's mildly annoying that I have to ask every time.

Some feel if announced with no request the dealer is interfering with the game or even a OPTAH violation

This is a case where the Dealers should be allowed some discretion as indicated above. Same for cash games when during 1/2 the Dealer should keep thing moving along when pulling a down with the Freshman/JV of the room. But if you sit down to a bunch of deep stacked regs it's time to sit back and pause a bit before stepping in.

Similar to a 'top 5' peeve for me ... Dealers pulling in 'first bets' when action has been raised by the 'last to act' Player. Pulling the bets in may (not may, it does) make the pot look more 'attractive' to perspective callers and possibly enhance a bet sizing error made by the raiser.

I've not seen the OP's 'rule' in TDA and certainly not Robert's ... and whatever the rule is for that room it should be more uniformally enforced during tournaments. GL

In my room the old manager had a strict no counting/announcing unless asked rule. I disagree with that. I tell my dealers that it is a judgment call for them with this rule of thumb: If you can look at the bet and tell how much it is, you can/should announce it. If you cannot tell by looking at it then wait to either be asked or see that a player is trying to figure out how much it is and help them.

It's simple. To speed up the game I don't want you to wait for someone to ask how much when the bet is 3 red chips and 2 white chips because from across the table it may not be easy to tell and I don't want to wait every time this happens. So many times a player sits and squints at it for 10 seconds and realizes they can't tell and asks anyway or they throw out the wrong amount and need to be corrected. Its stupid and pointless when you could have just announced it right away.

Guys many dealer guidelines aren't going to appear in rulebooks. That doesn't mean they aren't important, though. This is a house procedure thing. If it is desired to really see this sort of thing written down, my guess is you'll probably find it in the WSOP dealer guide.

The "rules" were written to reflect how the game was actually played, not to dictate how it should be played. When NL started to get popular the dealer didn't announce the amount. Player expectations have changed and the rules should reflect that.

I am a big fan of this idea. Good compromise

So consensus seems to be that this is not a rule anywhere, but is a preferred procedure in most donkaments, especially big buy-in's.

When guy was insisting it was a universal rule, I asked him if he wanted to put money on it. He said yes, but when I offered to make it $20, he wouldn't book. I let it go as I didn't want to ruin the vibe at the table and (of all the stupid things) he's my father-in-law's pinochle partner, so I didn't want to cause bad blood.

Ahh the fun of $25 self-dealt donkaments.

When dealers are taught to deal they are told not to announce the raise size until prompted to...

So op is wrong.. it’s not a preference it’s meant to protect the raising player who may or may not be trying to get a fold.

Sometimes it can be viewed as pushing action if you break down the bet and say only 50 more to call or something.

But ya dealers all over the country in home games and at casinos will announce raise and break it down and say the amount without be prompted.

Just remember to be “fair” to the raisers wager and let it look as big or small as he/she intended. No need to save those few seconds.

This is also why sometimes (should be all the time)a dealer waits for a player to ask to break it down.. most people probably get annoyed by these “slow” dealers who are actually following procedure.