5/10 NLHE cash game on the river. Player A is all-in. Player B is tanking when he throws in a seat change button. Player A interprets that as a call and flips over his hand. Is Player B bound to a call?

No but he is bound to be barred if I was floor.


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If he assumed it was a call and flipped over his hand, he will probably never do it again. Wait for the dealer to announce call, or if the dealer just sits there, I would just ask him "is that a call" before opening my hand. Throwing in a lammer isn't a call.

This. At the very least, he's getting an empty rack.

Also reason #464 why the 'one-chip call' is bad.

Unless there's actually a seat that just opened up and it's extremely obvious it was a legitimate seat change request, then scumbag is calling if I am floor. If he gives any pushback, he's getting a vacation.

he could be surrendering the seat change button

That's why it's an angle shot. He has a "plausible" explanation for what he did.

This guy needs to have a severe history of these types of things if you guys are considering handing him a rack lol.

What legitimate reason does a player deep in the tank on the river facing a jam have to throw a seat change button into the middle of the table? I don’t see plausible deniability here which is why it’s not such an angle but illegal.

Personally I thought the rule would be/is that player gets penalized or at least warned for angling but retains option to fold but the floor actually bound this player to call (and upheld on appeal too after 15 minutes). Maybe not exactly correct to the letter of the law but I’m not losing any sleep over this. Honestly the most fair outcome.

Well the rules are that the floor man has discretion to make rulings.


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You think it’s not an angle but illegal to relinquish a seat change button when you are in the tank? I would love to see the rule you are referring to.

TDA Rule 45:
And of course the famous Rule 1:
So you have to then maintain that a seat change button isn't a chip. I mean, I guess fair, it isn't a poker chip. But there's a difference between relinquish (the word you use) and toss into the middle in a manner consistent with a single chip call.

FWIW the TDA is fighting a battle already lost on disallowing single chip calls.

I now understand why the 20/40 stud players at Foxwoods won't table a hand on the river after a verbal call or even after I've flicked in a partial call. NLHE players should probably learn from this. But they get accused of slowrolling if they insist. It's on the dealers too who deal boards before pots are correct. I used to be annoyed about the time it takes to set pots especially with many side pots just for the biggest stack to scoop, but I recognize now it's important for cash game integrity.

Seat change buttons are not chips or cheques. They have no dollar value. They are buttons or lammers.

Having said that, I agree with many above that I would hold this player to a call, or 86 him, or both, unless he could convince me of some plausible explanation, which is doubtful. I don't care if this is his first time angling. My room doesn't need his continued business.

Throwing something that can easily be mistaken as a chip into the middle is an obvious angle so I'd hope it would get ruled on that basis.

Yet another reason that single chips being flicked in being a call is a problem.

Throwing an lammer or button is not a call. Even if he thought it was a chip tossed in it still is not a call. An angle shoot maybe. And the floor can send him on his way. But odds way against another chip of v going in the pot.

Just another reason why seat change buttons should not exist.


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Agree with those saying to hand the player a rack, force a full call, or both. Especially at 5/10 -- it's not like this person has never played in a cardroom before at that level.

As Player A in this situation -- has anyone else started to roll their cards slower than they used to (against an actual one chip call)? I'm at the point where I'm waiting for V to either put more money in or roll their cards first, I'm still a statue against a one-chip call because I'm of the opinion it may not be binding in a lot of rooms. The real switchover point on this for me was the NVG thread where someone freerolled for $1200 or so in a Vegas room with a one chip call by refusing to pay and taking the 86.

As an involved player or an observer, I have no problem with that . "Dealer, please make the pot right" before showing. If anyone gives you ****, just tell them you were robbed before by someone who refused to pay the full amount after losing. As long as you're polite about it and don't make it about that specific opponent (even if it is), no one should have a problem with it.

Just make sure you always do the same when you're the one calling.

Yeah this is the other thing that's changed for me -- if I'm on the calling end, I always try to ballpark the actual call amount if it's less than $100, and if it's more, I put out $75 or so and then continue moving enough stacks. Obviously if they roll their cards I roll mine if I have a winner, otherwise muck and stack chips for an orderly call.

The floor people in my room are split on this one. Some mandate a call, others think the seat change button isn't a chip and that the all-in player shouldn't be so eager to table his hand. Everyone agrees that the seat change guy is getting 86'd for the night at a minimum.

Player A is an idiot.

I don't usually go this far, but whenever somebody calls with one chip (or a couple of chips, but well short of the full amount), I don't table my hand until I get at least a verbal indication from the player that they are calling my full bet. If I bet $275 on the river, and they toss in one $25 chip, I literally say "Are you calling my $275 bet?". Only if they say yes in clear language do I table my cards.

If they then still refused to pay the other $250, well, we would end up with a serious problem. I don't like rat-f***s who steal, and don't tolerate it mildly.

Cheers, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

I’m the same way. I always make sure to either hear it verbally from the player calling or the dealer or both. I don’t think I’m ever showing my cards without hearing it from someone besides just seeing the chip get tossed in.

Luckily, in the plo game I play in most of the time, almost everyone announces it as a call as they throw in the one chip, so it’s almost never a problem.

no he doesn't

Dude, I would get and leave, and not give that player one more of my precious's.

The small satisfactions of the losing player ...