Quote:
Originally Posted by youtalkfunny
(Old Man Yells At Cloud, incoming....)
This is another evolution in poker procedures, and like all the others (like allowing players to obscure their cards and stacks with their hands, etc), there is no good reason for it, and no good result from it. I speak, of course, about allowing a player to release enough chips into the betting area to raise, but THEN pull back other chips to get below the "raise" threshold.
Back in the day, as soon as those 4 chips hit the felt, the dealer would have announced "raise", unless the player had first announced "call", or a number that was less than the amount being added.
You know WHY it used to be this way? So situations like the one described in OP would not be an issue.
If you can tell me why the current procedure is superior to the old one, you'll have to explain it to me, because I sure don't see it.
I'll take a shot at it...
Most players who put out too many chips and then take back some are trying to save time and effort. Instead of reaching out and pulling back all the chips and then counting the exact amount and putting them out there, they are in one motion dropping chips and pulling back the remainder.
To call them on a "raise" based on a technicality would be "gotcha" poker at its worst.
However, there is no good way to solve the problem of a player throwing out what he thinks will be a call when it turns out to be more than halfway to a raise.
Accidents will happen.
And when they do and players think they have called and have left all of the chips out there and it turns out they have raised, then they will be held to the raise as you have noted was standard in the past.
And as with any new rule, there will be opportunities to angle. The vast majority of people throwing out too many chips and withdrawing some to get back to a call, are gaining the benefits of this "new" rule. Their calls are exactly what they intended.
However, a variation of this angle existed before the rules changed. Instead of pretending to pull chips back "too late" the Villains in the past would simply object to the raise. They would say something like "I meant to call!" or "thats a call!". And then when it was pointed out to them mathematically that it was a raise, they would reluctantly put out the min-raise.
There was some televised event recently where a guy put out raising chips and then said "call" afterwards. He had done it enough in this one tournament that the TD issue a warning to the opponent that Villain typically had a very strong hand when he tried to pull this angle... And sure enough he did.