Thanks for the post.



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For the record, because everyone’s opinion seems to universally be that’s a false tell, I did that same action five times before with a strong hand and win each pot. It’s good to understand the flow of the game for this play to make any sense, but even then I wasn’t seeking feedback on what I know was a bad play. I was just trying to give context.



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I think it is an angle not a false tell.

I think it is an angle because you are technically within the rules but have violated the spirit of the rules. And you will likely need an official (dealer or floor) to make a ruling upholding the technicality in your favor.

It doesn't matter whether the betting line is valid or if it is forward motion. Either way your blind river call is not a valid action though you are trying to make it seem so. Its just not clear which rule is going to be invoked in your favor.

So in answer to your question, I think you are an angleshooting jerk. I have no respect for liars who initiate their lie in order to win more money. If an opponent asks a question I have no problem with lying (ask a stupid question get a stupid answer is what my father taught me). Deception and false tells are legit in poker though.

But as you point out your play was dumb anyway. Getting her to not bet isn't going to change the amount of money she wins. It only puts you in jeopardy of losing the extra $100 if the house gets it wrong. The only way it works is if the lady has a worse hand than you and was going to bluff and is now convinced you are going to call when in fact you would have folded. All of that is an unlikely parlay especially if she is familiar at all with false tells (when a player reaches for chips as I am about to bet I know they are trying to discourage the bet and are therefore weak).

And just to point out the obvious, if you are going to pull off this ridiculously stupid angleshot stunt, push $200 out there short of the betting line before the river is dealt, and don't say a word...

Can you clarify which cards you would have called on the river? Clearly not an A. What about a 3? 7? J? Etc.

Because despite all your talk about how it was not your intent to mislead, I think your OP shows it was.

Maybe a Q or a K.

Nice advice. I’ll double down on my false tells from now on.

The answer to your question is that you're 40/46ths of an *******.

Thank you for quantifying

Is that what you are asking in the title?

The question is really do you perceive my actions as angle shooting? That was not my intent.

I honestly didn’t think it was that big of a deal. I’ve seen it a hundred times in this poker room and no one ever exposed their hand assuming an automatic river call, nor outrage by the entire table.

If there was doubt you remove it here. Five times??? Your answer is YES AND A BIG ONE!!!

Okay thanks.


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I don't think it's an angle because I can't figure out any goal or purpose. OP is clearly drawing dead on the turn, and I think he knew that. The only way he could win on any river is by bluffing, and that is never going to work for $100 in a massive pot against someone with top pair.

OP had a brain fart and thought he needed to show down, then did the "calling any bet" false tell in hopes of showing down more cheaply. Then opponent exposed her hand prematurely, which knocked him out of his brain fart. I guess if you call that tell an angle then it is, but I don't.

I have no idea how I wound up in this subforum or clicked on this thread but this is a very clear angle shoot. There is no other reasonable way to interpret your actions.

You should get away with it because you technically did nothing wrong and technically didn't call. The game is big enough that the floor should probably be called to issue you a warning for your behavior.

You should not be forced to call and you are an angle shooter.

I think you’ve interpreted the situation better than everyone in this thread, including me. Thanks for your insight.

It's not a "false tell" it's just a tell. The basic essence of tells is strong means weak. It would be a reverse tell if you held your cards out like you would fold to any bet (weak means weak).

Hardly angly IMO. He tricked her into thinking he was dark betting and she thought she was calling, but she was wrong. She needs to follow the action, but either way it was a DB move.

The trick works because he is protected by the letter of the rule. If that's not an angle, what is an example of one? (I'm speaking hypothetically OP, not discounting the possibility of a bad tell here.)

Do you call holding your cards in a certain way that would seem obvious that you are folding and then instead you raise an angle?

Wikipedia definition of angle shooting:

Angle shooting is engaging in actions that may technically be within the scope of the rules of the game, but that are considered unethical or unfair to exploit or take advantage of another player.

Another definition from a poker magazine

Angle shooting in poker is defined as using unethical, intentionally deceptive tactics to take advantage of (usually more inexperienced) opponents

What OP did is an "angle". Plain and simple. Pull that crap in lots of home games and you will get your ass kicked. Its also very bad for the games. The last thing we need is for inexperienced players to get chased away from playing because the felt like they got cheated or tricked. Learn how to play better poker and quit trying to scam people.

No. I don’t consider all tricks to be angles. Can you give an example of an angle?

The difference between these two quotes is the nature of the deception. In the first scenario, she believes something *already has happened*, while in the second, the opponent believes something *will happen*.

To be fair, though, your first quote is not the same as what the OP did. The OP was in position, so he tricked her into thinking he called dark, not bet dark. Same principle, though - she clearly thought the call was binding.

And as I always point out in angleshooting threads, the antidote to angleshooting is clarity, not rules. If the dealer had paused the action and asked OP what he was doing, it would have defused the angle.

Haha, all the internet tough guys out today.


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Why did it matter? The only way you were going to win the pot was by check raising on the river and with the board that it was and how it played out you were never going to do it. So I'm perplexed by the whole willingness to call any bet on the river thing??