Saw a guy lose two pots at a 1/3 game and as he was leaving the table, he muttered under his breath about players having "integrity." Is there or was there something inherently wrong with check-raising?

There are signs in my room that list a few basic rules such as No Smoking, etc. but one of those rules is that check-raising is permitted which makes me think it's a serious enough issue if it has to be posted.

Been playing for over 50 years and check raising has always been part of poker.

I did run across a room in the 90s where it was not allowed.

I played in a home games a few times that was mostly older south GA farmers. You would get kicked out for check raising. Never seen a casino where it wasn't allowed.

There's an older lady in my room who plays 1/2 who everyone calls the check raise lady. She's around 70, seems like a nice lady and reads a crossword puzzle book thats about 6 inches thick while she plays. If she gets check raised, she stairs the player down until the clock/the floor is called. When they count down the clock and her hand is killed she still stairs the check raiser down and I've heard her say "why don't you just play your hand like a man".

So maybe there was something to this back in the day.

Sometime around 15-20 years ago a played asked me while I was dealing "Is check and raise allowed here" which led me to inquire on 2+2 for an example of where it is not.

Nobody could cite a concrete example but there was one vague allusion to a small stakes game somewhere in a California cardroom where it was not allowed.

In the old days(early 1970s) in Gardena(Southern California) in lowball you were not allowed to check raise a 7 or better..

I think it was more a time AND game issue. It was before my time, so I can't say which games or even when. But if you google it there are references of it being poor etiquette, disrespectful, underhanded or deceitful. Basically at one time was considered lying but ofc I suspect bluffing was always allowed and that imo is just as much lying.

There are claims that some LV casinos (at one time) banned it. But when it not mentioned. But from what I have been told, it was once considered very bad to do so but that was long ago. (Though most rooms have it as a posted rule you can so evidently not so long ago that there aren't players from when it was true.)

That's unimaginable. In the old days of the Wild West I guess you could end up getting shot over it but I'm sure some people still did it as a bluff, assuming it was legal to bluff in those days.

when i played as a 18 year old (31 years ) a home game on the upper east side did not allow it (and this was for limit games)
, it was a rule in some casinos as well til late 80's early 90's too

am i misunderstanding poker terminology or are we talking about checking when it's your turn to act and then reraising a bet behind you?

if that was ever formally/informally banned that's hilarious

So with that logic check calling and then leading on the turn/river would be disrespectful too.

omg this lady sounds fricken amazing!

I was playing in Tampa and a kid waiting for a 2/5 seat sat down in our 1/2 game and was just blasting off for half or all of his stack preflop.........every...........single..........ha nd.

This older woman was getting exceptionally butthurt over it, freaking out and saying "what's wrong with him? He's not playing right, doesn't he want to see the flop?!?!"

Back in the 90's I played in games where it wasn't banned, but check raising was greatly frowned upon. If a player did it the rest of the table would turn on them. Even then those places were really rare.

About a year ago, I was invited to play in a pretty juicy private game. It was only $2/$5, but 5 of the other 7 players were absolutely terrible. For most of them, their exposure was casually watching poker on TV and a few weeks of this private game. There were literally players getting stacks in with 2nd pair, terrible kicker, and no draw. Unbelievable game.

Anyway, one hand a bad player raised preflop and had 3 or 4 callers. In the BB, I squeezed with a marginal hand. I make it to showdown and show my marginal hand.

Immediately one of the better players takes me aside. He explains to me that I should never 3 bet unless I had an ultra premium hand (AA, KK, QQ, or AK), even AK or QQ are questionable. I should also almost never check raise. Only check raise with the stone cold nuts that cannot be beat. Even then, the play is to check-min raise.

Basically these types of plays were not banned, but if used too much you will piss off the fish and not be invited back.

If I am at a public (casino) table and someone makes a stink about check raising, they are making it quite clear that they can be exploited. Whether it is increasing the check raise frequency to annoy them or completely stop it and exploit them other ways. Either way, they are begging to be exploited.

All the rooms I delivered pizza to in the late 80s/early 90s in California had signs specifying that it was allowed. So it must have still been remembered as controversial.

I remember reading in a poker book that years ago where the author noted that check raising in a limit game back in the 1970s was sometimes not allowed. Of course back in the 70s, there were people publishing books that claimed the JTs was the best hand in poker.

I think in Theory of Poker, there was mention of not being allowed to check/raise with the wheel (nut low) in lowball draw

When Michigan first started Charity Poker Rooms the C/R was not allowed! Obv this seems pretty absurd these days, but it is fun to chuckle at.

I definitely let on that a (Nit) Player who c/r me is a big bother and I tend to agree with the 70-yr old lady .. play your hand like a man. But it's part of the game and a good way to tilt some Players who end up having to fold their wasted chips without seeing the next card or Showdown.

A c/r is HUGE in PLO since the bet size is so juiced up by the bets and calls that may occur before action comes back around. GL

If you don’t want to get check raised then don’t bet.

It was banned. In particular games for sure. And generally I believe.

Why? The new card can certainly alter your hand strength. Esp. if you were on a draw that hit. (Note I am not saying playing this way is good but certainly happens.)

Poker used to be considered a 'gentleman's game' which, among other things, meant that etiquette was very, very important. Check-raising was considered rude, at best, and at worst could get you into a scuffle or (100+ years ago) even shot/stabbed. You were expected to play with integrity (like a gentleman), so if you had a hand worth betting then you bet when it was your turn.

Like most things, though, societal norms evolve over time. When I started playing in the 70's the games were mostly 5 or 7 card stud and check-raising was still considered rude but begrudgingly accepted in most places. I think that's what led to signs being posted stating it was allowed. My understanding from talking to older players is that it was never an official rule that you couldn't do it...just very much frowned upon.

Check raising bothers me not at all. Last time I did it was in a cheap ($100) tournament at South Point. It was a bluff. Table said show and I did. Maybe the "victim" was careful not to tap the glass (He's FAR better than I) but general reaction seemed to be "Good Bet." Which was my reaction to others when it was done to me.

But the kind of behavior described above REALLY bothers me. There are those of us with neither the skills nor bankroll to play higher. We play poker both for fun and to test our skill. You can bully us all you want if you're playing like this against my table because you think it's the best way to win that's one thing. But if (as seems likely from then tenor of the post) you're playing like this because you're bored and fooling around for s****S and giggles until a seat opens for you, then you're ruining the game for most everybody else.

So you find it more rude if he fools around by check raising than if he fools around by open shoving 150 bb into a 20 bb pot?

Neither are rude to me personally. Id rather play with someone constanly overbetting than a calculated player if you ask me

Assuming its a blank i meant