With players and dealers separated by plexiglass and some players wearing two masks, it can be difficult to clearly hear or decipher what a player is saying or doing.

I witnessed two players in two different casinos who tried to angle shoot (IMO) this past weekend in tournaments. Basically here's what happened.

Late in tournament.. it's down to SB vs. BB..SB jams all in... BB strikes the table multiple times like he is checking and says something unintelligible.

Dealer asks... Do you call?

Player says something else unintelligible.

Dealer asks are you ALL IN?

Player makes a waving motion forward, says something else that sounds muffled and intelligible and never releases chips.

Dealer asks a third time, are you all in?

Player does the same thing... Waves forward and says something untelligible.

Dealer says, "That's a call" then dealer hesitates for a second, player does nothing... SB tables his hand... Then dealer flips over 5 cards... At no point did player say "Stop, no, I didn't call" or anything to stop the dealer...

As soon as fifth card is flipped.. BB claims he never went all in. Floor is called and dealer explains same story explained above. Floor said that since he didn't stop the dealer from rolling out 5 cards, he called the all in.. BB loses it and makes a scene with Tourney director.

Something similar.. all be it.. less dramatic happened in a separate tournament the next day.

Time to inpliment an "All In" button/chip that is sometimes used in bounty tourneys? Anyone else seen anything like this?

The point of an all-in chip is to communicate and signal agreement that a player is all-in. If you believe that this was an angle, then everyone including the angleshooter knew he was all-in. An all-in button won't deter a scumbag from being a scumbag. It would have only made his case a little more laughable.

The plexiglass wasn't the problem in this instance. The floor handled it perfectly.

A lot of casinos use those already. Both for cash game and tournaments.
With the all-in button, the dealer wouldn't have spread the board unless the player tossed the button in. And if he did, there shouldn't be any controversy or complaining to the tournament director.

Oooh I was thinking of the other type of button that is thrown by the dealer to the player. OP described it right, I just had a brain fart.

This is why some rooms require the dealer waits until the player puts chips in the pot before continuing. It reduces these angles.

When a poker player is given the chance to angle shoot, he will. If he hit the flop he wouldn't be saying he didn't call.

I think that an all in button should be implemented in regards to every player having one. Maybe a different size and texture then poker chips to minimize the “accidental” all in

It's a tournament, the dealer shouldn't be rolling over cards until both players' hands are tabled since all-ins have to show all hands to prevent chip dumping anyway. Also, I would have the player push at least one stack into the middle. If it's not the room procedure, that's fine. I think implementing an all-in button is a great idea too. The less ambiguous an all-in is, the less likely a player is to try to angle shoot the all-in.

Given the description of the action by OP, it would be a Call button, not an Allin button that would be needed, since the caller may or may not be going all in. I found it odd that the dealer switched from asking "do you call" to "are you all in" .

But the real mistake, imo, is just that the dealer Essentially got tired of asking, so announced call in the absence of either a verbal declaration or chips going into the pot. If he couldn't understand what the player was saying, he should have told him to speak up. If he thought the guy was deliberately mumbling he should have called the floor. But he shouldnt have made the determination of a call before clarifying the action.

Given that the guy allowed the board to run out without objection, he was clealy angle shooting. So I like the floors ruling. When a player makes ambiguous actions they leave themselves open to the floor intepreting what they mean. But I think the dealer could preclude that by Insisting on getting a clear response before continuing.

Every casino I play in but one uses an all-in button that is thrown in by the dealer when an all-in is declared (or a player calls an all-in with fewer chips or calls with no action behind). And I (used to) play in a lot of rooms...

Most of the rooms I play in require that at least one chip is put in when an all-in is declared or a call is made. Then the dealer throws out the all-in button and if the betting player doesn't dispute it then the all-in will stand.

It is why I always ask how much the bet is. Even when an all-in button is out there.

I have seen a lot of all-in buttons at different casinos. My favorite though is an all-in "button" that has the word "Call" on the other side (at the Aria possibly?). The "Call" side was only used if another player was already all-in.

As to the angle that was seemingly attempted, I don't like proceeding if a player has been ambiguous and hasn't put a single chip in. If there weren't any other players in the hand with action left, the dealer could have thrown an all-in button and that should have resolved this (the player would have to throw it back if he wasn't all in).

A problem with giving every player an all-in button is that it could get thrown in accidentally. At Foxwoods (FW) in bounty Tournaments the bounty chip is considered to be an all-in button. I have seen that bounty chip go in on more than one occasion when the player wasn't intending on going all in. And even when the player pulls it back immediately, the dealer is forced to call it an all-in. Now a typical all-in button is different enough than chips that this would happen less frequently. I am guessing that there would be times when the all-in button would "accidentally" be put in as an angle so that when it is pulled back the all in would stand and an opponent might make the mistake of calling.

Also when players move to another table they may just take the all-in button (and in some cases keep it...). So the casinos would have to have a ton of them. My guess is that they wouldn't want to spend the money...

Good idea, make it a plaque to prevent accidental shoves. The real pros are still going to put all their chips in except 1 & their plaques anyways.

@Mr Rick

For these rooms you say putting in a single chip, do you know it is an actual rule? Have you seen it written to put in a single chip?

I know I have had plenty dealers ask or tell me to do that but never has a floor away from the game actually said or showed where there was such a actual rule.

While masks do make it slightly harder to communicate and/or confirm verbal communications, it's still pretty simple to verify yes/no, including with physical cues.

Floor should have penalized BB after the blow-up, and warned him against blatant angle even earlier.

As a sidenote, i would support giving players a unique all-in button/token/plaque in both cash games or a tournament, as long as they realized it is 100% binding. Additional interactions with the dealer going all-in or confirming an all-in can end up assisting the opposing player(s).

Never been in a casino that has "call" all in buttons. All in buttons can also be used when someone calls an all in.

I mean, sure, they can be used, but they are wrong in some circumstances.

If it's 3 way, 1st guy all in with the smallest stack, 2nd guy calls with the largest stack, you can't give him an all-in button without completely messing things up.

What you need is color coded All-in buttons, associated with each seat, so that a player can use the correct all-in button or buttons to indicate which all-ins he has called.

What if their call does not put them all in and there is still action behind them?

It is just that dealers won't proceed until a player has put in at least one chip.

Usually the player will take one stack and push it forward.

Occasionally a player will push out a stack that is exactly the same size as the prior bet. That is why i always ask what the bet size is. So that the player won't say later that he was just calling.

I have no idea if it is a written rule. I have never seen any room's written rules. In some cases I don't think they would show me. In Foxwoods sometimes the Floor is reading out loud from some paper that I assumed were the rules (but not specifically this "rule").

I was playing in a FW tourney one time and I asked the dealer for the all-in button. I had a lot of stacks of chips and I didn't want to say "all-in" without pushing chips forward and I didn't want to push out stacks two at a time without the all-in button in front of me. The Dealer hesitated and I had to ask a second time before he gave it to me. I put the all in button down in front of me and then started pushing all my stacks up against it.

In that case you would just make the guy all in put the chips in, give him a button, and then make the second guy put in the right amount of chips.

Honestly, I've never seen a "call all in" button. Also in the original situation, it's heads up. Using an all in button to confirm all in would work there. In other situations where it's three ways, you should confirm the all in player's stack size and make the second player put in the proper amount, so long as the third player doesn't turbo muck their hand.

Lots of topics from long standing threads here ..

1) The 'All-In' button is fine. Lots of rooms also have 'Call' on the other side of the button as well. Which the Dealer would've tossed it in front of BB in this case and given him a perfect opportunity to stop the bus before any cards were exposed.

1A) At my home casino we've had up to 4 of these buttons available in our cash games and the Dealers are excellent in using them in multi-way action even to the extent of pulling them back into the tray if an AI gets more than one caller with the potential of a side pot looming.

2) Yes, in a 'high-end' tournament the cards are usually exposed and brought into the middle before the Board comes out. But in most 'daily' or even just the early levels this doesn't happen. You're lucky to get them rolled over in front of each Player. And as a Player you need to protect your cards, letting the Dealer take control of them can also lead to some bad spots as well.

3) I'm still mixed on the 'Player' button completely although I've had excellent experiences in bounty tournament where the bounty button can be used to signal an AI. GL

No, it's not a rule. As a matter of fact, I was in a game in a room I played in (about 1.5yrs ago) that doesn't use all-in plaques or lammers. Two players are heads up otr in a pot of about 1.5K. Player A said "all in" and threw in a nickel chip. Player B, without saying anything, threw in a nickel chip, and lost the hand, and while the dealer was waiting for him to push his stack over, he claimed he was only calling 5 bucks and didn't know he was all in.

The dealer kept telling him since he threw in a chip and the other player announced "all-in", it's a call. Floor was called, ruled he lost an all-in, argument escalated, poker room manager was called to the floor from his office, and ultimately ruled that one chip isn't a call, and gave the other player his 5 bucks.

Dealers were then told in pre-shifts when someone goes all-in they need to make the pot right, and if someone throws out a dollar to call, they need to push they're stack in before continuing.

This thread has been intriguing me. I think I've seen all-in buttons controlled by the players, but I may be thinking of the ones the dealer throws over, like missed blind etc.

Let's say that they are not plaques, but are chip-like, only smaller.

I could see a player absentmindedly having one on top of a stack, and moving that forward (but not announcing action, because reasons), intending to bet 20 units.

Does that become an all-in? Uncertain action, and the dealer clarifies before action moves on? Other?

I think the former, that this would fall under "you've got to protect yourself at all times" idea.

I've never been in a game where every player had their own. Usually only the dealer has one.

I saw a bounty tourney where each player had a $100 cash game chip as his bounty chip. It had to be visible at all times. Also, throwing in just the bounty chip was an all In bet.

Btw, in our room the dealers have both all in buttons and call buttons (different sizes and colors) so if a player goes all in, The all in button goes out, and when another calls, the dealer tosses out the call button. This way if a player is going to try and claim he didnt say call, he must do it immediately after the call button comes out. Otherwise he cannot dispute that he made the call after he sees the result.

It’s actually not a bad idea, perhaps more casinos can implement this.

This situation actually puts the player in a very tough spot, because if he reacts to what the opponent is doing or acts excited over a call, he’s giving off unfair information.

This was becoming the norm for Bounty Tournaments. You still have the opportunity for a 'mistake' to happen, but that's on the Player.

I think it would be lots of trouble if you tried to give Players 'indicator' buttons/plaques in a cash game. Best to just make sure the Dealers are well stocked and trained on making a scene (so to speak) about putting out the indicators for all remaining Players to see. GL