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Acting out of turn in a draw game

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09-06-2020 , 02:09 PM

Headhunter13

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 458

Wondering what the correct ruling is when a player acts out of turn on the draw portion:

Let's say Player B tosses two cards, but it's not his turn. Dealer asks Player A first and he draws one. Is Player B now bound to drawing two, or can he change the number of cards he wants to draw?

Is out of turn action on the draw treated like out of turn action in betting where he's bound by his bet if action doesn't change to him, but has all his options remaining if action does change? If so, what constitutes "action?"

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09-06-2020 , 04:59 PM

ThePokerFink2

adept

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 850

Where I play you would be bound to to your initial draw. Otherwise it would just be nonstop angles...

"I draw 4, oh it's your turn and you stood pat? I'll pat behind then" all day long

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09-07-2020 , 01:53 AM

monikrazy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 28,046

While in a strict game, making the oot action binding is correct, in more casual games starting the discards earlier can speed up the action, players might even put out cards out before finalizing their decisions - not perfect but a lot of the time i would not mention this or try to enforce it. I expect most floors also take mild approach here and give warnings first.

If it was a situation i thought it was important i would ask the dealer to clarify if the action was binding, to protect myself from angle.

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09-08-2020 , 11:09 AM

answer20

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 10,844

Although there's plenty of game play that can be part of draw games, I see this as an individual action and thus should be held. Although Players are taking action on their holdings I don't think we can actually call it 'action' as in 'action changed' therefore letting Players off the hook as in a betting round. Since Players are allowed 'to act' on their holdings independently of what other Players do, it only makes sense to only allow them one decision (action). GL

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09-08-2020 , 02:22 PM

kimoser22

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 3,822

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePokerFink2

Where I play you would be bound to to your initial draw. Otherwise it would just be nonstop angles...

"I draw 4, oh it's your turn and you stood pat? I'll pat behind then" all day long

I feel this should be true if an actual draw is declared or the cards pushed obviously far enough forwards that their intent is to be exchanged, but I know against people who stall OOP to get a peak at your draws I may separate two cards in my hand and draw 1. It would be bad IMO if the cards were still in your working area and you were held to draw 2. Players OOP are at a disadvantage and letting them slow play to get a peak at the field's draws seems sub-optimal.

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09-09-2020 , 12:20 AM

BigBlue56

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,963

I don't play much draw in the casino, but I'd think 'clearly identifiable' should come into play.

Player B tosses them into a pile with others, or out of his 'area' then they are held to that draw. With the other thread on angling, I shouldn't be shocked that some players would declare OOT and change.
Player B places them down in front, ready to pitch in... no problem picking them up and changing the number.

Much like angle shots that depend on greed/taking advantage of perceived information, Player A should be basing their own draw on what's best for themselves. If Player A only does that, then there is nothing to be gained by Player B pump faking a draw.

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