I would go to security or talk to the pokerroom manager and see if you can explain yourself or at least see what evidence they have against you. I would also do this soon if you haven't already. You need to talk to them while it is still fresh in their minds. If you go back in let's say a month, they might not have the tape or certain details may have been forgotten. They will see mark cards/cheating on the report and won't even consider listening to your case.

I would stop with the pen thing though. Not saying you were intentionally trying to do anything and it they didn't find ink on the cards but I still wouldn't want to play with a pen during a card game just for fear of accidently marking a card. I have seen floor persons tell players they couldn't use certain card protectors just because they thought they could mark the cards. I am surprised a dealer or floor person wouldn't have told you long ago to put the pen away while playing or in a hand.

So every time you damage a card the house should bring out a brand new $20 to $30 set-up?

Mike seriously just stop. you obviously are not familiar with some pretty basic things in the casino business.

CZR operates/manages several properties for Tribes. Yes Tribes own the casino. CZR just brought in the expertise and capital to build the casino and staff to operate. Cherokee one example. AKChin as well as pigbill mentioned. prob others too that dont come to mind.



for sure OP could do that as most would. But would likely just get the CZR policy and prodcedures. Casino people follow ICs they dont wing it.

by going to Tribe you at least have a chance to short circuit the CZR policies and procedures for maybe a better outcome.

Plus if that doesnt work, OP will still have option to muddle through CZR corp process


@jeffpm07 just returned your PM

Are they really that much? This was like 6 cards not 1 though.

Think out NC. Cherokee

Why, because I didn't know Caesars owned or managed any Indian casinos?

They dont own the ones Ive played at so I had no idea. Im also not sure why they would want Caesars managing it since Caesars managed themselves right into bankruptcy.

Just because a pen looks standard does not mean it contains standard ink. It could be used to store invisible ink for use in marking cards.

I've seen many players bend the hell out of corners and jam their thumbnails in hard enough to stab all the way through. When confronted, none of them believed they were doing anything out of the ordinary. None were willing to make any changes in how they look at their cards. The ritual is too important I guess.

no, its because you have several times questions his credibility.

IMO his OP is one the most credible, omg ive been banned stories I've seen here, and there have been many.


for starters I cant think if any mgmt contract CZR has that didnt start years ago, back when they were actually a pretty good company.... you know before Loveman. (off topic CZR totally effed up opportunity in Macau under his watch which lead to your friend Sheldon Alderson and LVS crushing in Macau . All harrahs got in first round of concessions In Macau was a worthless golf course. CZR Board should have canned him straight away just for that.) It was downhill for CZR after that for this but many other reasons.

as far as why a Tribe brings in mgmt company, thats pretty easy.

Your a tribe . you have land in trust and starting to negotiate your compact with the State to build and open.

But you have no money and no experience whatsoever building and operating a casino. So you bring in a company like CZR that has the money and the experience and give them a piece. Not all tribes have done that, but many have in one form or another.

I considered this but the fact that Ive probably spent a good 500 hours at said room and had the same dealer for a good 5-10 and never had anyone say anything makes me doubt it in general. How would it only happen to aces and kings as well. I could possibly see overbending corners but it would be all cards. The thumbnail thing I can't see.

Obviously mine was only a regular pen, I believe special stuff like IR ink and whatnot would only showup on special cameras/black&white?

Wow you must play with animals... im going to guess the U.S? ....ive never seen such card abuse at live poker ever in 10+ years.

are such scum thrown out of the poker room for stabbing thru cards with their nails...?? lol seriously they arnt even human.... what animals.

My major question is whether the casino really had proof of marked cards or whether the were just damaged inadvertently. Its pretty common both for select individuals to squeeze or otherwise damage cards with no awareness, and even for casinos to use cheap decks periodically that never hold up properly. Ot course, this isnt a super easy argument to make after the fact but if it was in fact a combination of sloppy investigation, weak room management, that should be very easy to prove

I would also add that players who inadvertently damage cards are often players you very much want to have in the game.

My thoughts are the initial marks were likely on purpose by someone due to their hard detection and seems like that much easier to do where cameras couldnt see and being on all the aces. I couldnt distinguish them from 5 ft away when dealer was picking them out. Bent corners afrer floors been called likely inadverdet - I don't think anyone would be dumb enough to do after floor has already been called, and dealer could have possibly been over analyzing at that point.

The investigation seemed sloppy with the whole ink thing, why I wanted to get a statment from dealer and floor confirming no ink.

just reread my post above.. sry my Loveman rant was derail.

But to be fair to him. He was person behind development of Total Rewards. most successful casino marketing strat ever and still gold standard. Everyone else just copied what he did.

He was a great mktg person but pretty bad at finance and building/running casinos. A steve wynn he was not. /derail

I'm guessing you're a player. I'm a dealer, and as such pay a lot closer attention to this than most players. I'm also doing it at every table in the room, so I get a lot more coverage than you.

It did seem to be more prevalent on the tournament circuit. Lots of those guys like to squeeze their cards which is how those thumbnail marks get in the middle. That, and I might pass through 1000 unique players in a day versus a couple hundred in a local room.

Did the warning and announcement of someone marking cards come out first and then you continued to keep the pen out?

I believe I had it out some after.
Probably not smart in hindsight but ink was never mentioned at the time and I was infintley more worried about who at the table could be marking cards rather than them incorrectly suspecting me.

ya this stuff happens with casino security a lot... they really can't do their job effectively so they assume things that are idiotic and innocent people get blamed.

Unfortunately, now that it's progressed to this point I don't think you can convince them it wasn't you or get them to change their decision... arguing you weren't cheating is kinda going to be like arguing with a wall. I'd write a letter immediately and in 6 months to Caesars and talk to poker room management if you know any of them personally (they actually will be more knowledgeable about the situation/marking cards and better chance of them knowing your innocent as you played there x amount of hours never had an issue and this is just a misunderstanding that hopefully they can fix)