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$26 tip- should I have said something?

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06-17-2017 , 01:18 AM

Willy6258

stranger

Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 4

1 -2 game at local casino. New dealer to the casino. Pot was around $30. Player accidentally? tipped a white and a green chip. Dealer briefly paused and then dropped in his toke. Should dealer have said something? Should I have spoke up?

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06-17-2017 , 01:23 AM

parisron

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 19,781

If player was seated near me, after the dealer left I would probably say "You know you tipped a $25 chip in that pot right?" and when he confirms shock then its up to him if he wants to pursue getting it back or not.

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06-17-2017 , 01:40 AM

Howard Beale

Formerly red

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 22,190

DON'T SAY ANYTHING!

The dealer should've spoken up. That puts that dealer on my 'do not like, only gets minimum tip' list.

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06-17-2017 , 02:21 AM

Lord_Crispen

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,205

There's zero chance I'm taking this tip without saying anything. If it's a player I know, I just say "hey, is this for real?", toss it back, and give them a chance to correct it. If I don't know the player, I'll break it down to 4 reds and 5 whites and toss it back to them and see what happens.

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06-17-2017 , 02:24 AM

DarkOne

veteran

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,494

I would stay out of it unless I was friends with the player, then I would quietly mention it to him or text him.

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06-17-2017 , 02:35 AM

TimmayB

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 12,086

Meh I deal some underground games for tips only and I think I'm still saying something in this spot even if is probably out of line.

If this was clearly unintentional it's basically the dealer stealing imo and he would only be the second dealer ever on my no tip list. I mean if he had been throwing the dealer a lot of redbirds or something I probably don't say anything, but if he had been tipping $1 or $2 all other pots saying something here is fine and the dealer not saying anything if this is the case is bad and should feel bad.

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06-17-2017 , 02:41 AM

FWWM

FOOT FF Fristion '15

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 12,519

Yeah, normally dealer always confirms. Maybe he didn't notice either. Normally dealers say something to the extent of tysm multiple times if they receive a huge tip. If it is clear the dealer saw it and didn't do anything, the yes, put him on minimum tips. Whether or not say something depends on table dynamic and your stance to the other player

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06-17-2017 , 02:45 AM

TimmayB

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 12,086

Quote:

Originally Posted by FWWM

Whether or not say something depends on table dynamic and your stance to the other player

I'd argue you if it's clearly a mistake (which sounds like is almost always the case here) you are obligated to say something even if saying something is maybe out of line. It's theft by the dealer and should be treated as such. If you saw someone trying to steal a $25 chip from their neighbor's stack you're certainly obligated to say something. This is pretty much the same thing except in this case it's worse for the other players/game since the money is immediately and permanently out of play imo.

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06-17-2017 , 07:56 AM

psandman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 15,829

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimmayB

That's ridiculous. I understand that you may feel it was a mistake and that the dealer should have pointed it out and I don;t disagree with you on that .... but its not anything at all like a player taking a chip out of another players stack. The chip was given to the dealer ... maybe in error ..... but its clearly not theft.

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06-17-2017 , 08:49 AM

#10

borg23

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 15,049

Quote:

Originally Posted by psandman

It's 99 PCT a mistake and the dealer knows it.it is at best marginally less bad than outright theft.

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06-17-2017 , 09:47 AM

#11

TimmayB

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 12,086

Quote:

Originally Posted by psandman

I disagree and think it's ridiculous to argue otherwise. Trying again: You have a $43 bill at a restaurant or from food delivery and accidentally give the server/delivery man a $100 and tell him to keep to change. The worker-for-tips somehow 100% knows in this case you meant to give them a $50 and they also somehow know 100% the customer thought they gave you a $50. I think arguing this isn't theft is absurd.

Last edited by TimmayB; 06-17-2017 at 09:52 AM.

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06-17-2017 , 10:02 AM

#12

parisron

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 19,781

Disclaimer: I am a long time poker player but did deal several years awhile ago.

It is not the dealer or servers job to determine what the customer wanted to tip. If they throw money at you then you lock it up. If they within a short period say they made a mistake then you make it correct.

People tip strange amounts all the time. I have seen entire pots and 100% tips on a meal.

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06-17-2017 , 10:11 AM

#13

TimmayB

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 12,086

Quote:

Originally Posted by parisron

It is not the dealer or servers job to determine what the customer wanted to tip. If they throw money at you then you lock it up. If they within a short period say they made a mistake then you make it correct.

Ugh people that work for tips (of which I am one-two days a week) with this mentality are horrible. It is 100% your job to not steal from customers/properly handle their transaction, tip included. If this was clearly meant to be $2 it is absolutely outright theft and the dealer is the perpetrator by not saying anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by parisron

People tip strange amounts all the time. I have seen entire pots and 100% tips on a meal.

This is also correct but I've never ever seen this happen where the tip giver does not make it clearly obvious this is what they were doing.

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06-17-2017 , 10:14 AM

#14

parisron

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Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 19,781

How do you know it was clearly suppose to be a $2 tip? If it was a regular and you know he would never tip $25 or whatever then that it another thing.

Outright theft huh. With zero chance of being convicted of anything. That doesn't sound like theft.

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06-17-2017 , 10:19 AM

#15

TimmayB

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Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 12,086

Like I said in my previous posts it's immediately very easy to tell if this is a mistake or not. In this particular case it always is.

And lol at having to be charged/convicted to be guilty of something. Horrible argument. If you kill a dude in a back alley with no witnesses, have a perfect alibi, and his body and the murder weapon both dissipate into thin air there is zero chance of conviction. You're still a murderer.

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06-17-2017 , 10:21 AM

#16

parisron

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Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 19,781

That is not the same at all. There can never be zero chance of getting caught in a murder or robbery and those are obvious crimes.

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06-17-2017 , 10:24 AM

#17

TimmayB

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Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 12,086

Lol how is that not exactly the same? I'm talking hypothetically.

Trying again: you somehow telepathically know you can take $25 from the woman's purse ahead of you in line with no one, including her, noticing. You're saying if you take the $25 here, it's not theft? No one knows, there's no chance of being caught/convicted, and perhaps the $25 was accidentally left there for you! This is not theft in your mind. Correct?

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06-17-2017 , 10:27 AM

#18

parisron

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 19,781

You are being ridiculous. If the pot was $50 and the person threw a black chip at me. I obviously would say what is this? He would then say change or that is for you etc.

I may have done the same thing on the $26 but its all situational.

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06-17-2017 , 10:34 AM

#19

TimmayB

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 12,086

Quote:

Originally Posted by parisron

I may have done the same thing on the $26 but its all situational.

Correct and the OP and situation here infers that this was a clear mistake. The dealer by not saying anything in this spot is clearly stealing from the unknowing tipper and by extension the entire table.

I don't see how I'm being ridiculous at all. You also never answered my hypothetical so just trying one last time: you're saying a person is only guilty of something if they're charged/convicted for it?

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06-17-2017 , 10:36 AM

#20

Kelvis

banned

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 8,737

lol @ theft

lol

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06-17-2017 , 10:39 AM

#21

TimmayB

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 12,086

People's morals and the whole semantics/toeing the line of right and wrong thing have gotten way far out of whack when people are calling this (once again, assuming it's 100% a mistake and the tippee knows this) anything other than theft.

Wtf do you call it if not theft?

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06-17-2017 , 10:46 AM

#22

Kelvis

banned

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 8,737

Theft requires the lack of consent. While it may be a mistake, the dealer did not ask him to do anything, ask any amount or went out of his way to take anything without the player's consent.

It's scummy, but theft? My god.

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06-17-2017 , 10:48 AM

#23

TimmayB

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Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 12,086

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelvis

or went out of his way to take anything without the player's consent.

It's scummy, but theft? My god.

If we absolutely know this is supposed to be $2 the dealer is going out of his way to take $24 without the player's consent or via the player's mistake. They're the same thing in this spot.

Last edited by TimmayB; 06-17-2017 at 10:54 AM.

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06-17-2017 , 11:05 AM

#24

Kelvis

banned

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 8,737

Situation A: dealer distracts everyone and grabs a $25 chip from the player's stack

Situation B: dealer receives a $25 that he realizes is a mistake. He keeps his mouth shut

Situation A is theft, B is not. I get the point you're making but if we go along that route then I am going to call this "car" because the meaning of a word no longer has anything to do with what it describes. This is simply not theft. The thing with tipping is that the customer decides the amount so anything he gives him just isn't theft by definition. You're trying to put some morals into a word that isn't about morals.