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Why do I still have winner's tilt? Why do I still have winner's tilt?

05-22-2010 , 02:11 PM
Today I opened up my poker software, first hand I get AA, stack someone, then leave because I was afraid to keep playing.

I am at NL100, have worked my way up from NL10, and in 4-5 months Im gona rely on poker as my only source of income. So why does this still happen, something that I thought I would get rid of months ago?

When I am losing, I can keep playing a lot longer, trying to break even or show a profit. But when I win however, even just 1 buy in, I nit up and usually leave after 1-2 orbits.

I know right now it may be because I have moved up recently and the money still seems huge to me, but even at my last level this still happened quite a bit.


I guess its not the worst thing, but it causes me to play a lot less then I want to/need to so that is why I am asking for advice here. I think the biggest reason why this happens is that I am afraid I will spew the money off somehow and then hate myself for doing it. I have this fear because I can spew quite a bit sometimes, lowering my winrate from 10bb/100 to 7bb at the last 2 levels. Maybe it is better for me to quit after winning 1-2 buy ins?
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-22-2010 , 03:55 PM
dont play bigger then your life roll, and your swings won't matter
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-22-2010 , 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmac900

But when I win however, even just 1 buy in, I nit up and usually leave after 1-2 orbits.
I think you should play at the level you feel confortable.If you are afraid to play at this level,just move down one level and try to build a bigger bankroll for nl100,so the natural swings wouldn't affect you.Set time to play/day,not money to win/day and try to ignore short time results.
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-22-2010 , 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0mblad0n
I think you should play at the level you feel confortable.If you are afraid to play at this level,just move down one level and try to build a bigger bankroll for nl100,so the natural swings wouldn't affect you.Set time to play/day,not money to win/day and try to ignore short time results.


Ok people, everyone is scared playing the new limits when they move up, dont tell me to move down cuz Ive done this moving up thing a few times before. Im just looking on ways to handle it better.
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-22-2010 , 08:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmac900
Ok people, everyone is scared playing the new limits when they move up, dont tell me to move down cuz Ive done this moving up thing a few times before. Im just looking on ways to handle it better.
No, not true.

When you are adequately rolled, you aren't 'scared' to play the higher limit. Not at anywhere near what you are describing.

What you are describing has to deal with comfort factor and usually that comes about because you took too big of a jump.

If you eased into 100NL after crushing 50NL then you really shouldn't be scared. So 1 of 2 things is happening.

1), you weren't ever really comfortable at 50NL
2) you aren't adequately rolled for 100NL

Before you roll your eyes, think about it. If you were sitting with $1M in the bank do you think you'd feel the same stress playing 100NL than what you are playing now?

The money means too much to you and one of the biggest reasons why that is often the case is when it represents a big percentage of your bankroll.

And for the sake of argument, lets say you have $10K bankroll and are now playing 100NL and you STILL are feeling super tight and nitty while playing. Then I would say that you just didn't play 50NL long enough. Perhaps you just went on this super heater and shot up $10K in 2 months with 50NL, then that just wasn't enough time for you to really get comfortable and trust your skills. ANd so, the discomfort becomes more pronounced at 100NL.

Questions, when did you start 10NL?
How long did you play 25NL?
How long did you play 50NL?
How long have you been playing 100NL?
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-22-2010 , 11:20 PM
Its natural to feel this way.

But what u have to do is put ur grinder hat on and embrace the importance of volume.

Start mantra-ing things like:

"Its all one long session".

"Theres no such thing as being up or down, only even."

"Quitting when Im ahead and playing long sessions when Im stuck is a recipe for failure."



What ur doing when u play long sessions when ur stuck and quit early when ur ahead is youre trying to avoid (what u perceive to be) loss. To get over that u have to train urself to play for the longrun and deemphasize single session/single day results.
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-23-2010 , 12:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgiharris
No, not true.

When you are adequately rolled, you aren't 'scared' to play the higher limit. Not at anywhere near what you are describing.

What you are describing has to deal with comfort factor and usually that comes about because you took too big of a jump.

If you eased into 100NL after crushing 50NL then you really shouldn't be scared. So 1 of 2 things is happening.

1), you weren't ever really comfortable at 50NL
2) you aren't adequately rolled for 100NL

Before you roll your eyes, think about it. If you were sitting with $1M in the bank do you think you'd feel the same stress playing 100NL than what you are playing now?

The money means too much to you and one of the biggest reasons why that is often the case is when it represents a big percentage of your bankroll.

And for the sake of argument, lets say you have $10K bankroll and are now playing 100NL and you STILL are feeling super tight and nitty while playing. Then I would say that you just didn't play 50NL long enough. Perhaps you just went on this super heater and shot up $10K in 2 months with 50NL, then that just wasn't enough time for you to really get comfortable and trust your skills. ANd so, the discomfort becomes more pronounced at 100NL.

Questions, when did you start 10NL?
How long did you play 25NL?
How long did you play 50NL?
How long have you been playing 100NL?
+1
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-23-2010 , 02:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgiharris
No, not true.

When you are adequately rolled, you aren't 'scared' to play the higher limit. Not at anywhere near what you are describing.

What you are describing has to deal with comfort factor and usually that comes about because you took too big of a jump.

If you eased into 100NL after crushing 50NL then you really shouldn't be scared. So 1 of 2 things is happening.

1), you weren't ever really comfortable at 50NL
2) you aren't adequately rolled for 100NL

Before you roll your eyes, think about it. If you were sitting with $1M in the bank do you think you'd feel the same stress playing 100NL than what you are playing now?

The money means too much to you and one of the biggest reasons why that is often the case is when it represents a big percentage of your bankroll.

And for the sake of argument, lets say you have $10K bankroll and are now playing 100NL and you STILL are feeling super tight and nitty while playing. Then I would say that you just didn't play 50NL long enough. Perhaps you just went on this super heater and shot up $10K in 2 months with 50NL, then that just wasn't enough time for you to really get comfortable and trust your skills. ANd so, the discomfort becomes more pronounced at 100NL.

Questions, when did you start 10NL?
How long did you play 25NL?
How long did you play 50NL?
How long have you been playing 100NL?

Look some of us dont have the time ok. I got 20-25 buy ins for NL100 and thats gona have to be enough. Now you can either sit here and tell me to move down or give me constructive advice. I did crush NL50 and I am not uber nitty at NL100, I play close to my A game.
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-23-2010 , 02:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeThomasHowl
Its natural to feel this way.

But what u have to do is put ur grinder hat on and embrace the importance of volume.

Start mantra-ing things like:

"Its all one long session".

"Theres no such thing as being up or down, only even."

"Quitting when Im ahead and playing long sessions when Im stuck is a recipe for failure."


What ur doing when u play long sessions when ur stuck and quit early when ur ahead is youre trying to avoid (what u perceive to be) loss. To get over that u have to train urself to play for the longrun and deemphasize single session/single day results.

Thanks
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-23-2010 , 04:31 AM
[x] under rolled for 100nl

[x] move down
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-23-2010 , 05:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmac900
Ok people, everyone is scared playing the new limits when they move up, dont tell me to move down cuz Ive done this moving up thing a few times before. Im just looking on ways to handle it better.
If you want to handle it better,without moving down,just don't think at money too much,don't let one session to affect you and try to play your best poker.For me,your story sounds like you are scared too win more at nl100.Imo,this thing can be:you play too big for your comfort and bankroll or the monies you can lose here in a session means a lot for you,and of course when you win 1 buy in,you're happy and quit.Maybe sometimes you think about what you can buy with 1 buy'n.This is not very god for you,you need to think in terms of volume and $/h in the long run.Sometimes variance can be a b***h.Good luck!
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-23-2010 , 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icracknuts
[x] under rolled for 100nl

[x] move down

[x] suck a dick
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-23-2010 , 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0mblad0n
If you want to handle it better,without moving down,just don't think at money too much,don't let one session to affect you and try to play your best poker.For me,your story sounds like you are scared too win more at nl100.Imo,this thing can be:you play too big for your comfort and bankroll or the monies you can lose here in a session means a lot for you,and of course when you win 1 buy in,you're happy and quit.Maybe sometimes you think about what you can buy with 1 buy'n.This is not very god for you,you need to think in terms of volume and $/h in the long run.Sometimes variance can be a b***h.Good luck!
Thanks
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-23-2010 , 03:56 PM
You seem a lot like me. The advice you have been given ITT is great though. I would say you ARE underrolled a bit for 100NL but it should be okay if you are not too swingy/tilty and are not playing too many tables b/c the losses can snowball easily. I like a 40 buyin rule myself and I usually 5-6 table.

In terms of quiting when up...I do this a lot, atleast I use to. I would think "Well I'm up $100+ in like 5 minutes so that's enough for today." When in fact I could be up a lot more and even if I end up being stuck I will gain some back from rakeback/bonuses and add to that the valuable experience you gain in playing especially at a new limit vs. new players.

I am going to order "The Poker Midset" book and read it soon http://www.amazon.com/Poker-Mindset-...4644075&sr=1-1 I've heard good things about it and it should be helpful b/c it deals more with the mental issue I need help with as opposed the the actual game itself which isn't lacking as much.

p.s. 100NL was only a bit harder than 50NL as opposed to 200NL where it is a significant jump.
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-23-2010 , 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAnavar
You seem a lot like me. The advice you have been given ITT is great though. I would say you ARE underrolled a bit for 100NL but it should be okay if you are not too swingy/tilty and are not playing too many tables b/c the losses can snowball easily. I like a 40 buyin rule myself and I usually 5-6 table.

In terms of quiting when up...I do this a lot, atleast I use to. I would think "Well I'm up $100+ in like 5 minutes so that's enough for today." When in fact I could be up a lot more and even if I end up being stuck I will gain some back from rakeback/bonuses and add to that the valuable experience you gain in playing especially at a new limit vs. new players.

I am going to order "The Poker Midset" book and read it soon http://www.amazon.com/Poker-Mindset-...4644075&sr=1-1 I've heard good things about it and it should be helpful b/c it deals more with the mental issue I need help with as opposed the the actual game itself which isn't lacking as much.

p.s. 100NL was only a bit harder than 50NL as opposed to 200NL where it is a significant jump.

Cool, yeah thats often my mindset, that I can lose it and then im gona be cranky for the rest of the day lol.

I did actually read the poker mindset and it was good for a while, but I seem to have reverted back to my old ways.
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-23-2010 , 07:06 PM
You seem to have similar goals to me. I plan on playing 200NL at the end of summer as well. My other 2 runs at the limit didn't fair too well but I feel like I am much better now. Anyway PM if you are up for a sweat session at 100NL sometime.
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-24-2010 , 11:24 AM
You may have a problem with short term vs long term goals. You should leave games when your EV changes due to player lineup, fatigue, etc. If your results (doubling up and leaving, getting stuck and playing a marathong) dictate your playing schedule, you have leaks to work on. You might be giving up a lot of profit when you walk away and/or tilting when losing because you don't focus on EV as a reason to start or stop a session.
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-24-2010 , 10:52 PM
I have had similar issues. I didnt really combat those on purpose, but they happened to disappear when i did the following thing: Put the full tilt point meter into my lobby screen and just play until i got 200 points for the iron man. What this did is that i almost always stop a losing session at 200 points (which is roughly 75 minutes of 4 tables 25 PLO rush) and when im up or have fun or both i play to like 300 or 400 points or more.

No idea whether this can help. Just wanted to leave it here.
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-24-2010 , 11:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaF
I have had similar issues. I didnt really combat those on purpose, but they happened to disappear when i did the following thing: Put the full tilt point meter into my lobby screen and just play until i got 200 points for the iron man. What this did is that i almost always stop a losing session at 200 points (which is roughly 75 minutes of 4 tables 25 PLO rush) and when im up or have fun or both i play to like 300 or 400 points or more.

No idea whether this can help. Just wanted to leave it here.

I dont play on full tilt, but its good advice if I ever do in the future, thanks.
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-25-2010 , 11:26 AM
Every time I lose a buyin I honestly self-assess if I am playing my "A" game in a profitable environment. You must avoid self-deception and realize when you have frustrated gambool-like "let's bust out or get even" thoughts.
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-25-2010 , 05:26 PM
I agree with the general response that you aren't rolled enough.

Would you leave if it were NL2 that you stacked someone in?

Rather than moving up play more tables. Whenever I 'take my shot' I go from playing 8 tables to 4.
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-25-2010 , 11:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mt.FishNoob
I agree with the general response that you aren't rolled enough.

Would you leave if it were NL2 that you stacked someone in?

Rather than moving up play more tables. Whenever I 'take my shot' I go from playing 8 tables to 4.

Its not just about the roll, I have 27 buy ins now, but even when I had 40 at NL50, I still felt this to some degree.

And for the last time, I am not moving down. I feel it has gotten easier since I have more buy ins though.

I have cut down the number of tables I play from 4 to 3 for now.
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-26-2010 , 01:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmac900
Look some of us dont have the time ok. I got 20-25 buy ins for NL100 and thats gona have to be enough. Now you can either sit here and tell me to move down or give me constructive advice. I did crush NL50 and I am not uber nitty at NL100, I play close to my A game.
LOL at 20-25 buy-ins. If you are taking shots with that kind of roll, you gotta be prepared to move up and down... i mean what if you have a 15bi downswing, are you just gonna keep playing NL100 w/ 10 bis?
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-26-2010 , 02:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theballer84
LOL at 20-25 buy-ins. If you are taking shots with that kind of roll, you gotta be prepared to move up and down... i mean what if you have a 15bi downswing, are you just gonna keep playing NL100 w/ 10 bis?
Bravo on your reading skills as my post just above yours says I have 27 buy ins now. Anyways, I think you guys are being a bit harsh tbh. Most people dont even practice proper bankroll management, and I feel like some of you are too nitty. I do plan on having 30 bi when I try NL200, but I have moved up from NL10 to where I am now, starting EVERY level with about 20-25 buy ins.
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote
05-26-2010 , 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmac900
Its not just about the roll, I have 27 buy ins now, but even when I had 40 at NL50, I still felt this to some degree.

And for the last time, I am not moving down. I feel it has gotten easier since I have more buy ins though.

I have cut down the number of tables I play from 4 to 3 for now.
well 40 isn't enough then. If you had 300 buy ins at 50 I'm sure you wouldn't feel anything win or lose. BRM like everything in poker is not black and white its grey scale. ( you said yourself 'to some degree)

Have you actually produced a BRM plan on a spreadsheet? I use 75 buy ins for nl10 100 buy ins for 25, I don't play 50 now but when I use to i was underrolled imo and i had about 60 for it b4I cashed it out.

Many people consider 40 buy ins too small. Depends on how many tables you play and how strong in poker you have become.

Increasing tables is much better than moving up. I play 8+ normally, when I reach enough buy ins for next level I'll move down to 4 tables and have a 4 table shot, If i run bad I just move down until I have those 4 buy ins and try again. Taking shots and breaking through is a very disciplined area, its a tilt all in itself
Why do I still have winner's tilt? Quote

      
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