I think Mason provides a vastly better description than I could provide.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...poker-1756469/

It depends on how each person defines "reward." To someone playing for income (at any level), the reward is gaining money. However, that isn't the only reason you find people in a poker game, or for that matter, in a casino.

I've read that link before. I will stick with the actual empirical science on that topic instead.


Suppose we consider just the people who want to make money at the game, but are unable to control their anger enough to actually achieve that. Further, let's suppose that these players are sufficiently knowledgable enough, but "tilt" ends up being the difference between them winning or losing.

Surely the financial incentive would help them turn a profit.

Well, I have some differences with Mason myself, even if they're minor. However, I'm unaware of any empirical science on tilt. Perhaps you could elaborate a bit on that before we explore it deeper.

Seems to me the op is just getting his feet wet in real money games. Thus expressing tilt with language is like listening to a 9 year old boy tell me about the sexuality of grown women. I dont buy it and I ended up skipping over most of the thread.

Op. You dont even know your tilt yet. What youre experiencing is totally normal. U know why people get nervous at the poker table when real money is involved? Because its ****ing important. 200 bucks on the table? Thats a good days pay for a large portion of people in the developed world. Those in the undeveloped world would probably do awful things for that 200 bucks. This doesnt speak anxiety nor tilt to me as op described. Sounds like hes nervous because its important.

We get nervous when important stuff happens. Some of us may be able to harness the benefits of an elevated heart rate and muscles that are ready for battle, without experiencing negative stuff at all. Most of us are so removed from our ancestors necessity to defend themselves and their families, and we have become so lethargic in comparison, that when important stuff happens it makes us irrationally nervous.


It takes time to find out where you really stand on the mental game spectrum. I always heard good things about Tommy Angelo. He wrote a series on mental game. I suggest checking it out.

Dude, that is vicious! I love it and it describes the OP nicely, but vicious nonetheless.

However, the original thread died a while ago. VeniceMerchant reopened it a few days back with questions of his own.

Thanks for getting me caught up.

"Shouldn't the financial incentive alone be more than enough to deter people since our brains are so hardwired toward reward?"

This view ignores things like compulsion, desperation, temptation, and the opportunity which gambling provides(more like a dream for many) which all play a part to some degree in gambling life. Its not a question of if you will experience these things. Its a question of if you can beat these things in the long run.

Well, when dealing with anger, I've had success with both Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) and Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT). DBT has been the best for me. Once I learned strategies that helped deal with my tilt triggers, my tilt dramatically improved. It takes a good deal of work. I think that's where a lot of people give up. They want a quick and permanent fix like amateur hypnotists claim to provide.

The big thing with tilt in my experience is that you have to catch yourself when it happens, and keep getting better at identifying what you're upset about. CBT refers to something called the ABCDE's. Activating Event, Beliefs, Consequences, Dispute, Evaluate

Activating Event (eg. someone chased a 42 flush draw on AQK9x and caught a river)
Beliefs (it's not fair, bad players shouldn't get rewarded etc)
Consequences (now I'm angry and playing too many hands, wanting revenge instead of playing solid, or I quit the game etc.)
Dispute - use logic to explain why that Activating event is fine (their decisions over time are why the game is +EV)
Evaluate - how can I get ahead of it the next time, etc.

Usually when I get a hand all in on a flip (55%), I minimize that screen until the runout is over. It helped me put less emphasis on whether this particular hand hits or not. In the past, I'd be excited when my hand improved, upset when villains got there, and sometimes that was changing multiple times between the flop, turn, and river.

The ideas here have been proven empirically to work across many different disorders etc. Things like "real psychology" have actually not applied scientific rigor to their ideas, and would never get published in any peer-reviewed literature.

Does that mean they are useless? No, and they probably still help some people. Some poker players claim to be "cured" of tilt from hypnosis. Maybe they are. I tried a dozen sessions from someone on here and I felt like literally nothing changed.

That's why I'd go with the solution that seems to work for nearly everyone.

I think you need to reread that link. What you describe is only a portion of poker tilt.

Umm, OK. So, you have a solution that works for you and you're here? Are you looking for another solution for a problem you've solved, looking to discuss the subject deeper, or just wanted to pontificate on your solution?

OP is asking for ways to improve the mental game, and I made my suggestions based on what works for me, using the strategies that are widely being used by psychologists.

Are you really asking me why I'm posting my reply in psychology?

It seems like you've decided to get insecure about my post for some reason.

No, just confused. Rock on.

Become meta-aware at the table. Have a voice within emphasizing the value of overruling emotional and personality based reactions with the Rule of Sound Decisions. Also emphasizing that the emotional/wreckless plays you make are adding up against your long term results.

This guy solved the Robbi situation back in June

"Do you like to gamble?" Columbo asked the perp. "What else is there?" he replies.

IMO it just comes down to becoming really good at poker.

And whatever that means for a specific individual doesn't matter that much probably.

I stopped tilting once I understood I am good and I am beating the stakes I am playing at and that my decisions are not guesses based on wild assumptions but rather data supported decision points where I KNOW exactly what to do in every spot, and if I don't know what to do or I am unsure I will just tag the hand and check it after session.

I would tilt often in the past when I was just guessing and guessed wrong.

This is a beautiful example of what I meant when I said the cure for tilt is poker knowledge.

I stopped tilting when I went back and added up all the money I was losing on tilting plays I was making. When I did that I realized I would be a pretty solid winning player at those stakes if I just cooled my damn jets and stopped pissing money away when I got all emotional. Tilting stopped that day.

That's beautiful. When it dawned on you at a deep level, when you gained a meta-perspective of your behavior/play rather than being immersed in the moment, when you stopped letting emotion overrule discipline and sound strategy .... voila, that is it!

As others have said, there is no cure for tilt.

Even suggestions people give, may or may not work for you.

We all have our own unique physciology.

Working on your game so win rate is higher helps..
I think playing long full days helps, because hopefully if your decent
you can get past the beats and squeeze out a win, and I find that
softens the blow, I sometimes feel slightly gratified that I was still able to
win despite some sick ****.

Meditation works if you apply and stick with it. Just look at those buddist
monk's they never get mad. Mediate for 45 years and you can be emotionless
like then lol

A little bit yes and massively NO!

There is tilt, Tilt and TILT.

If you put in the work (there are no magic pills), you may only suffer a maximum of tilt.

But you have to actually put in the work, which many people simply won't do.

And TILT ? lol. Maybe three levels are enough. But I don't get the just blind assertion that there is no cure for tilt. It's about like saying there is just no cure for beating your wife. Both are losing it and acting irrationally under the sway of emotions. We just need great improvements not total absolute cures when it comes to tilt at the poker table. Makes all the difference. It isn't even the goal to become a non-emotional machine, but simply to control them.

Were human.

We can never fully turn off emotions.

You analogy is not very good.

Its not a poker thing either. Go compete hard at anything, and
if you get beat down badly, you will feel some bad emotions period.
Probably revolves around are survival instincts, cause losing a game of
monopoly has no repurcussions, so there's no reason really to get mad.

The goal is never to turn off human emotions except for in profound self-alienation leading to mental illness. The existence of emotions does not equal tilt. The goal is not to become an inhuman, unfeeling computer. It's just to integrate our human emotions with discipline and thoughtful self-control.

The Buddhist monk doesn’t turn off emotion… quite the opposite..

They are so in tune with nature and understanding all around them they can understand why bad things happen to such a high level that they are above falling into an emotional state but rather rise up to a place of complete understanding aka poker knowledge.

Sometimes the understanding is just as simple as I was 88% when the money went in and that 12% will be realized equity 12% of the time so I completely understand that and don’t go on tilt when I lose type thing.

—-

On a side note the last time I went on tilt was because this guy hit and run me instantly after stacking me.

The Buddhist monk would have realized this is part of the game and was inevitably going to happen when you have opponents looking to make a quick buck and leave.

But i couldn’t help but be tilted and in an emotional state of sadness anger confusion.

The great thing is now that I am understanding fully the dynamics of hit and run, it will now be one less thing to tilt about IF I’m capable of rising to the level of understanding aka poker knowledge.

So, I was wondering, exactly when did you stop beating your wife?

As to the rest, are you suggesting that it's possible to never get frustrated? To never get tired of catching few to no good cards while everyone else seems to be getting involved in big pots? Little "tilt" can be as simple as giving up, grabbing your chips, cashing out and leaving the casino because you know your decision-making abilities are impaired.

In the very post you replied to I said we don't need absolute cures. (Hint: there aren't any.) Yet you ask this ridiculous question.

Tilt is about frustration tolerance, and frustration tolerance is about ego strength. That's the bottom line distillation of the subject in my book.