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Old 10-31-2018, 09:55 PM   #1
Jkpoker10
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At what age does decline start?

This is going to be an odd question but at what age do poker players start to see a noticeable decline in their so called ability etc? Iím mainly discussing tournament play but something Iíve noticed is older gentleman tend to be pretty bad at poker. By no means do I say being older means you are a bad player as I play a very low buy in level compared to most people around here (my abi live might be 200-400).

I know most older people that play today came up at a time when poker was played in a much different (tighter, less 3 betting etc) manner but I was just wondering how long you think the young person today has to be a threat in a tournament? I would guess since poker is not an athletic sport..... prolly till what 70-80 if health is maintained and the ability to grind a long day is still around. Just would like to hear what people say. Iím in no means ripping on older poker players, etc in this post btw if it comes off that way.
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Old 11-01-2018, 02:46 AM   #2
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Re: At what age does decline start?

yeah i agree about older players, many of them never broke through into that new wave of modern poker theory and precision. that said, i have played with some senior regs live and found some of them to absolutely crush. im thinking of one guy in particular who must be 80+, he is a war veteran, and he is really really good.

with all this new information about neuroplasticity emerging it seems pretty clear that brainpower is a 'use it or loose it' deal. i know everyone always brings up Doyle brunson, but he really is a good example. the guy used to weigh 400 pounds and he had cancer at one point which the docs said would kill him. now he is 85 and still winning in the big bet mixed games in bobbys room.

one thing i love about poker is that if you are a serious player you are always in a state of growth. the game is so incredibly deep and there are many varieties that you are constantly learning, and also realizing that you have barely scratched the surface. i think its a really healthy activity, similar to chess or sodoku

Last edited by +EVillain; 11-01-2018 at 02:52 AM.
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Old 11-02-2018, 03:42 AM   #3
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Re: At what age does decline start?

Almost zero relationship between age and poker skill.

Old players who are bad have either always been bad, or had failed to keep up with the evolution of poker.
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Old 11-02-2018, 04:32 AM   #4
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Re: At what age does decline start?

Interesting topic i have considered this before. When i see a guy who is 60+ years old playing today its a natural reaction to assume he sucks and will not have a theoretically correct strategy and this is nearly always proved correct. Im 35 now and have played a few million hands online etc defo not near the top echelon of players but have that online background in the fundamentals that old players today lack. When im 60 there is no reason i won't still have the game i have today so id say the future isn't looking great when you have OAPs who know GTO!
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Old 11-02-2018, 05:52 AM   #5
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Re: At what age does decline start?

I started to decline at about 22
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Old 11-04-2018, 12:24 PM   #6
Jkpoker10
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Re: At what age does decline start?

Itís odd bc I feel most rec older players in live mtts play so face up. Recently in a 400 bi, like first few levels of a decent structured mtt, some younger player 3 bet an old man and the old man jammed maybe 125-150 bbs pre. The young guy tank calls kk but it was so obvious old dude has AA. Event if his range is qq+, still prolly a fold I wanna day bc itís so heavily weight toward AA ( never happening with ak). I just find it odd that old players play so nitty and tend to play so face up.

I would love to see an old person show a big bluff someday but never happens I feel. Just my thoughts. I think itís more of a coming up when poker sucked have old age thing no question. I feel in the early 90s, people prolly only 3 bet premium hands etc and most older rec players arenít bright enough to adjust
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Old 11-08-2018, 02:17 PM   #7
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Re: At what age does decline start?

When the internet generation gets old, it will change.

How much one declines with age, one can take a look into chess rating lists and see how the older players (40-50) do worse now than when they were younger; -50 rating points or less; one class is 100 or 150 points; there are still super grandmasters, the best of the grandmasters, at 40-50 age. The best are still strong grandmasters at old age if they kept playing, e.g. Viktor Kortchnoi; you could think that to be Doyle Brunson at live games.

The rating drop to Kortchnoi was maybe one class when he died to old age. One class online is like 200 vs. 400 or 500. 100 is pretty much the same as 200. So, when you are 70, you might have to settle for 200, if 500 was your top level, and at 40-50 to 400, if the games won't get tougher.
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Old 11-13-2018, 12:10 AM   #8
Mason Malmuth
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Re: At what age does decline start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkpoker10 View Post
This is going to be an odd question but at what age do poker players start to see a noticeable decline in their so called ability etc? Iím mainly discussing tournament play but something Iíve noticed is older gentleman tend to be pretty bad at poker. By no means do I say being older means you are a bad player as I play a very low buy in level compared to most people around here (my abi live might be 200-400).

I know most older people that play today came up at a time when poker was played in a much different (tighter, less 3 betting etc) manner but I was just wondering how long you think the young person today has to be a threat in a tournament? I would guess since poker is not an athletic sport..... prolly till what 70-80 if health is maintained and the ability to grind a long day is still around. Just would like to hear what people say. Iím in no means ripping on older poker players, etc in this post btw if it comes off that way.
Hi jpoker10:

This is actually quite an interesting question. Years ago I used to play some limit hold 'em with poker legend Johnny Moss. When I first began to play with him, at Binion's Horseshoe Casino in Downtown Las Vegas, he had just turned 80 and was literally one of the worse players I had ever seen (and I was in my mid 30s at that time).

But I knew some players 15 to 20 years older than me who were adamant that Moss was once an excellent player who had just gotten old. I found this hard to believe since I would routinely watch him call a reraised pot before the flop with any ace. But I can't say that what I consistently heard wasn't true.

Another, perhaps more interesting question, is if you're an excellent player, how much do you need to lose in terms of knowledge and ability for you to become a losing player? Someone like Doyle Brunson still seems to play quite well, while Johnny Moss, based on my observation, certainly didn't.

Best wishes,
Mason
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Old 11-13-2018, 01:45 PM   #9
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Re: At what age does decline start?

Green was an undergraduate at age 40 and came up with Green's theorem and a bunch of other important contributions.
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Old Today, 02:42 AM   #10
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Re: At what age does decline start?

Older chess ratings decline because the typical serious tournament requires mega stamina while remaining totally focused for usually multiple days. A single game can last four hours or more. Ratings are based on all the sanctioned games, not just the "final" match.

Championship qualifying matches and the "main event" are a lot like the WSOP main event. You might be playing the same guy day after day for hours on end. When you are not playing there is review, preparation for the next day, a 40-year-old grandmaster has a definite physical edge over an 60-year old grandmaster even if the old guy was once the young guy's coach.
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