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Old 10-26-2016, 08:42 AM   #76
Elrazor
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Re: Is tilt really fixable?

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Originally Posted by daonna View Post
For someone who suffers from severe gambling tilt (addiction) it's kind of interesting to read this bull**** about tilt being remedied by concentrating on becoming more expert at the game.
Gambling addiction and tilt are not the same thing.
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Old 10-26-2016, 09:02 AM   #77
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Re: Is tilt really fixable?

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Gambling addiction and tilt are not the same thing.

He has a point though they are closely related In the sense that both people act irrational and wouldn't normal make those choices if they were emotionally stable. You often hear people talk about tilt as if it's a lack of control similar to addiction.



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Old 10-26-2016, 01:42 PM   #78
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Re: Is tilt really fixable?

Tilt is not a clinical condition that in many instances impacts a person's ability to function normally throughout their lives.

There are always exceptions, but by far the biggest predictor of tilt is (lack of) poker ability.
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Old 10-27-2016, 08:37 AM   #79
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Re: Is tilt really fixable?

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Gambling addiction and tilt are not the same thing.
I agree insofar as the word tilt covers a wider spectrum of issues than gambling addiction does. For example, smashing a computer screen due to "anger tilt" doesn't necessarily mean a person is a gambling addict. It just means they're pissed.
But there is a lot of behaviour that is labelled tilt that could also be viewed as symptoms of gambling addiction. Chasing losses, irrational betting or poor/non-existent BR management.
Lately the word tilt has encompassed pretty much any and all flaws in someone's poker and a lot of those flaws are symptoms of degenerate gambling.
When I said that this generation is calling tilt, what my generation called gambling addiction, I was specifically referring to the use of the word tilt when talking of those symptoms. I took the op's use of the word tilt in that concept as well, mistakenly perhaps.
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Old 10-27-2016, 12:21 PM   #80
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Re: Is tilt really fixable?

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But there is a lot of behaviour that is labelled tilt that could also be viewed as symptoms of gambling addiction. Chasing losses, irrational betting or poor/non-existent BR management.
Actually, there are very few. Of those you have listed, only one could be considered a symptom of gambling addiction according to the DSM-5.

https://www.problemgambling.ca/EN/Re...gDisorder.aspx
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Old 10-27-2016, 04:56 PM   #81
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Re: Is tilt really fixable?

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Originally Posted by daonna View Post
I agree insofar as the word tilt covers a wider spectrum of issues than gambling addiction does. For example, smashing a computer screen due to "anger tilt" doesn't necessarily mean a person is a gambling addict. It just means they're pissed.
But there is a lot of behaviour that is labelled tilt that could also be viewed as symptoms of gambling addiction. Chasing losses, irrational betting or poor/non-existent BR management.
Lately the word tilt has encompassed pretty much any and all flaws in someone's poker and a lot of those flaws are symptoms of degenerate gambling.
When I said that this generation is calling tilt, what my generation called gambling addiction, I was specifically referring to the use of the word tilt when talking of those symptoms. I took the op's use of the word tilt in that concept as well, mistakenly perhaps.
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Old 11-09-2016, 07:58 AM   #82
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Re: Is tilt really fixable?

Fixing tilt is based on the person.

Some people are just degens by nature and aren't ready to change.
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Old 11-10-2016, 05:30 AM   #83
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Re: Is tilt really fixable?

Life will expose your achilles heel ... often in the arena of the shadow, which is to say in the realm of the disowned self. It is how we choose to deal with that that leads to great successes and great tragedies for human beings. The two choices are "awareness" or "unawareness" of the nature of the weakness, both of what and where it is. That may be our only fundamental choice in a primarily mechanistic universe - the choice to see or obviate sight, to focus consciousness or to blank out. Rationality is not so much about being smart but about being aware, and being willing to be aware. That's our ultimate hand to play and it comes with treacherous potentials. The gambling world is a particularly dramatic and volatile medium of this principle and control is not given to the self-blind.
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Old 01-03-2017, 09:31 PM   #84
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Re: Is tilt really fixable?

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Hi Synchronic:

Why will calmness help with tilt? If your brain can't process certain information that gets presented to it in the form of a logic disconnect, how will being calm allow you to do something that you're not capable of doing?

Best wishes,
Mason
Because your view, and definition, of tilt is wrong. And you seem to be attributing capabilities to calmness that proponents aren't making.
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Old 01-04-2017, 05:46 AM   #85
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Re: Is tilt really fixable?

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Originally Posted by Critic Al View Post


Because your view, and definition, of tilt is wrong. And you seem to be attributing capabilities to calmness that proponents aren't making.
Elsewhere you recommend turning to Tendler, presumably because his definition is right? What qualifies Tendler to define it? How do I know he's right?
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Old 01-14-2017, 08:06 PM   #86
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Re: Is tilt really fixable?

I used to tilt like crazy. The best I've found on tilt material is the book "The Poker Mindset" but Ian something. It's nothing groundbreaking it but lays out the realities of poker, which ones you understand these, tilt should be reduced. Much of tilt comes from our reaction to something, in which we expected a different result. The best thing that I've done for tilt is understanding the long term by zooming out and seeing the big picture. No longer is a session a session. A session is just a small piece of the bigger picture. The best you can do is make the best decision possible and don't worry about the outcome. Therefore, whenever I raise, call, fold, etc I focus on whether that was the best decision and I move on, I could care less about the outcome as I know it doesn't matter short term. It'll help if you decide to do this for something like 10k hands or something and you'll be surprised to see the probability of consecutive losing sessions is very low, assuming you're a winning player.
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Old 01-15-2017, 01:00 AM   #87
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Re: Is tilt really fixable?

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Originally Posted by StaYSMacKed View Post
I used to tilt like crazy. The best I've found on tilt material is the book "The Poker Mindset" but Ian something. It's nothing groundbreaking it but lays out the realities of poker, which ones you understand these, tilt should be reduced. Much of tilt comes from our reaction to something, in which we expected a different result. The best thing that I've done for tilt is understanding the long term by zooming out and seeing the big picture. No longer is a session a session. A session is just a small piece of the bigger picture. The best you can do is make the best decision possible and don't worry about the outcome. Therefore, whenever I raise, call, fold, etc I focus on whether that was the best decision and I move on, I could care less about the outcome as I know it doesn't matter short term. It'll help if you decide to do this for something like 10k hands or something and you'll be surprised to see the probability of consecutive losing sessions is very low, assuming you're a winning player.
Hi StaYSMacKed:

This is actually similar to what I say. Once your understanding of all things poker is strong, and this includes strategy, the short-term luck factor, and the idea that games like poker, which are based on probability theory, can be counterintuitive, troubling information that the game presents to you will now be processed by your mind (when they weren't before) and your tilt issues should improve dramatically.

Best wishes,
Mason
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Old 01-19-2017, 07:28 AM   #88
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Re: Is tilt really fixable?

"You see, gentlemen, reason is an excellent thing, there's no disputing that, but reason is nothing but reason and only satisfies the rational part of man's nature, while (behavior) is a manifestation of the whole, that is of the whole human being including reason and all the impulses. ... Consciousness, for instance, is infinitely more complex than twice two makes four." -- Fyodor Dostoevsky
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Old 05-13-2017, 02:57 AM   #89
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Re: Is tilt really fixable?

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Originally Posted by Pokerisfu View Post
Tilt is fixable in the sense that you always have a choice to how you react to situations. Tilt is not a disease that plagues the mind your fully in control of what you choose to do. Don't take poker so serious


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If people are aware that tilt often leads to -EV play then why do they choose to tilt?
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Old 07-08-2017, 09:27 AM   #90
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Re: Is tilt really fixable?

Basically to put it bluntly they either play for fun so no biggie or if they play as pros their basically idiots, and when I say "their basically idiots" I mean everyone me etc when on tilt.

Gambling attracts players because it can be easy money

But to make money from gambling you need to be disciplined and work very hard which is basically the opposite of "Gambling attracts players because it can be easy money" and why they Tilt because their either not knowledgeable enough about the game or want to gamble it up when variance is against them or they are bored at small stakes because again their not disciplined.
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Old 07-12-2017, 02:48 PM   #91
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Re: Is tilt really fixable?

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There is nothing I hate more than playing bad poker due to impatience, boredom or various forms of tilt. There are many forms, more than most realize as Jared Tendler outlines. I realize now that I suffer from almost all of them when not winning. I have read his books and even talked to him/emailed directly about many issues. But not person or book can make me suddenly stop tilting.

I wish there was a fix to this, but I don't think there is. I know the focus should be on making good decisions, not winning pots or being a hero. I know this, but when I get into a game and things are not going my way, my brain just seems to malfunction. Its like I want to win so bad, I can not stand to lose so I fight to win even if I take on more risks such as bluffs, etc.

Sometimes, when this is working, its seems justified. But in reality, maybe I was just getting lucky that my poor tiltly plays just happened to work at the time. In the end, poker always gives your what you deserve and keeps you accountable for your decisions.

I seriously think its just part of my personality. I can not imagine just being the completely different person who doesn't care about results. That can just play the game the same way whether card dead for hours, running bad, or running great. But some people do this or come pretty darn close. That's the mark of a true professional, and why I will never call myself one until I can seal this leak. It is absolutely devastating to lose in this manner. I can accept loosing, I know its part of the game, but burning money through forms of tilt is not acceptable.

HOW CAN I POSSIBLY STOP THIS??

I have pre game ritual and notes that I try to remind myself with. Ive done many things, and nothing seems to work. It sickens me that I can not play my best consistently and especially when things are not going perfect. I seriously want to be card dead for the rest of the year and run like garbage just so I can be tested to learn how to deal with this! What does it take or am I just skrewed?
The commonality in your writing is that it "tells a narrative". Poker, however, does not tell a narrative. Sure, Moneymaker won the World Series of Poker, and it's a great story, but when you break it down, it was a lot of math and some psychology, nothing more. The story of Moneymaker is built to be magical by ESPN, and all the viewers, etc. But, it's all one hand at a time, one wager at a time, one game tree node at a time, and so forth. There is no "story" as to why you got a red queen instead of a black deuce. It is a random event. There is no "villian", just opponents with characteristics in their game play that are exploitable. There is no "hero". There is only the focus of the action that is developing a plan of action. There is no "luck". There is only your brain connecting dots that aren't meant to be connected, and calling it "luck". Now, nobody can stay even-headed like this all the time, but it pays the more you can do it, and it's what you will more, psychological satisfaction, or $$$. The more long-term you think, the closer you are to preferring $$$.

You need to snap the narrative spell where everything goes according to script. The hero beats the villain, and it's game over, +100000 bitpokerpoints. You're like reading the wrong genre. Poker is a game of non-fiction, not action-adventure.

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Old 07-12-2017, 02:55 PM   #92
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Re: Is tilt really fixable?

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Originally Posted by chrisshiherlis View Post
If people are aware that tilt often leads to -EV play then why do they choose to tilt?
They prefer A to B. Intellectually they can realize one thing, but psychologically do another.

Say A means to straddle, and B means not to straddle.

A has an immediate value of 10 psychology points, or PV. B has a total of 0.

A has an immediate EV -2, and B has an EV of 0.

What does the agent choose, the EV or the PV? Well, at this point you get into states of mind to model it, because it's unknown what the agent is going to do with this conflicting data. Shrewd people gladly forgo the PV for EV later which can be treated as $$$ which can buy happiness.
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Old 07-18-2017, 10:53 AM   #93
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Re: Is tilt really fixable?

Try Elliot Roe's mp3, it will help a lot, at least I did for me.
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Old 07-20-2017, 01:28 AM   #94
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Re: Is tilt really fixable?

I would pay a pscyh coach double what he actually charges if I came out better on the other end. That's how bad I want to fix this.
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Old 07-21-2017, 02:24 PM   #95
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Re: Is tilt really fixable?

i think it is, the best thing to do is get up from the table when you feel it coming
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Old 07-21-2017, 02:24 PM   #96
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Re: Is tilt really fixable?

people are recommending the website by Fedor. I just downloaded the app to give it a try
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Old 09-18-2017, 01:20 PM   #97
Mr. Small Blind
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Re: Is tilt really fixable?

Some things I do when the maniac punting off thousands of $ hits his one outer quads on the river...

-Stand up, walk around. Go outside, take a 5-10min break
-Remind myself to rely on my skill and play my game. Stay disciplined, dont overplay hands and try to get it back. Be patient and grind it out.
-Set realistic goals. As an example, if I am now stuck -$800, I set a goal for -$400

If I cannot find cards
-Stand up, walk around. Fresh air.
-Order something to eat.
-Distract myself with other things for an orbit or two.

If image is particularly poor, table change or switch games.

If consistently getting it wrong, call it a night. Study the next day, take a night off.

Meditation and good will to others can also go a long way...but some people dont believe in karma, which is fine. I feel it contributes to a positive frame of mind.

I will use tilt in the other direction against the table. If I take a particularly bad beat or suck out, I might start opening bigger with premium holdings. Making hands and barreling big. Youll get called down wider.

Last edited by Mr. Small Blind; 09-18-2017 at 01:26 PM.
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