Good OP, however I really disagree with the author's responses to some of these posts. Talking about variance especially during a negative downswing is absolutely 100% healthy. Just 'manning up and dealing with it' is just another way to deny a perfectly natural emotional response. Ignoring that and 'powering through' is going to be detrimental for a vast majority of people experiencing large sums of negative variance. Some people can do that but not everyone. Just thought that needed to be said.

bump

I am glad I came across this - I need to man up. Starting today

I also agree with this - I think letting out negative feelings can be very important and doesn't have to be exclusive with manning up. You can let it out and keep your cool.

I do like OP's point - don't let your opponents see your frustrations or anger. You always want them to think you are the best *and* the luckiest.

+1

This "man up" solution is just, well, lame. Getting royally screwed day in, day out, for weeks or months on end takes a toll on the mind. Being able to let it out is healthy.

And not all "downswings" are equal. Statistics dictate that some people will get a more severe dose of it than others. And it can be crippling, financially and mentally.

I know, because I experienced one of these cruel downswings. Not it poker, but at the tables. I lost 90% of my paycheck every month, for 2 years. My graph would have been a straight line down. Almost impossible. Baccarat and blackjack accounted for 75%. Roulette 25%. I lost 16 straight 50/50 spins on roulette. I almost went mental. I was convinced the casino was cheating. I wasn't upset with losing -- I could handle the loss -- but to almost never win? And I used a progressive betting system as well. Doesn't change the odds, but it does alter the winning frequency in my favour. Made no difference. I lost 90% of the time. With small wins accounting for the other 10%. I would lose $2000 in a few hours, routinely, and if I got up a thousand, it was miracle. But the next visit, would see $3000 gone in hours.

In the old days (Party Poker days) I pulled $30,000 off Party Poker. But since the start of this slide, I've almost never won. I lost probably $5000 online and quit.

I did run well live. Pulled in $20,000 over a summer, but lost it all to baccarat.Eventually, I banned myself from that casino, took a year off, saved up, and play poker occasionally.

But ludicrous luck does exist.

Take a 2 week vacation, then get back at em playin your A game. Always go into the game thinking your gonna win and a good streak is on its way. If you lose, hit the next game you play in, with the same optimistic attitude. And so on, and so on. If you ever start playing a game, thinking "I got no shot, I'm gonna lose", find yourself a new profession, dishwasher.

Pretty much lost all your credibility on your post when you started talking about progressive betting system. I thought every ******ed person even some with IQ < 80 already figured out this is just a stupid myth.

And lol @ comparing variance in roulette with poker, sigh.

No offence OP, but I believe the "man up and grind" advice is a little narrow minded. Sure, it's great if you can pull it off and not everybody can. To be able to you need to be an extremely emotionally strong by nature, which is an equivalent of your comparisons with famous athletes. I believe people being able to use and execute your strategy are already the "genetic lottery" big winners. Your'e assuming just because you can do it, everybody should, but it's like Michael Jordan would be saying "its easy, you just need to throw the ball inside the basket"

Easily in the top 10 threads I've ever read on twoplustwo.

I think you raise a very good point actually, and I definitely agree that everyone needs to let themselves go through the natural emotions associated with the downswing. Personally, however, I always come back to this:



I go through tough down swings like any other player. I'll often times have long conversations with good poker friends about the downswings as they are happening, or I will smoke some weed and sort through all my thoughts by myself for a few hours. I need to do this because I need an emotional outlet to deal with the downswings. What I'm saying is that the emotional outlet of coming onto a message board that many of your opponents probably read and complaining is probably not the optimal way. As OmahaDonk says above, I don't like the idea of letting your opponents see you when you're weak and vulnerable. Particularly when playing HU, I like staying with my deep stack for days on the table after big wins. When playing live, if I've had a few winning sessions in a row, I'll usually return really deepstacked with most/all of my winnings the next day. I love posting HHs for analysis where I think I made great plays. Sure part of this is to satisfy ego, but I do think that its +EV as well which is really all that should matter. Moreover, you're going to get way better advice from real life friends than from strangers on a message board when the issue is one of your psychology.




You're right. I certainly can't give anyone here advice on how they personally should do things, but what I can say is that this is the type of mindset I've found to be successful for me and for a lot of friends who are very good poker players. If I were to name an athlete who I think uses this mindset well it'd be the MMA fighter Fedor Emelianenko. With that said, while I agree with you that I should be more open minded about the different psychological makeup each poker player has, I would warn people to not use their psychological "deficiencies" as an excuse to not give full effort. I have ADD and it makes playing live poker very tough on me, but theres really no point in complaining about that because complaining won't solve anything.

Sad, but your narrowmindedness has prevented you from grasping a higher concept.

Perhaps one day if/when you encounter a truly severe losing streak, you may look back and think to yourself, "What a narrowminded, naive punk I was."

A higher concept? On roulette? Ahahahah. And what has encountering a severe losing streak to do with knowing/not knowing how stupid 'the progressive betting system' is?

this post was just what I needed, tx for sharing. Especially with what online poker has faced in 2011.

I loved the point about variance being the key component of poker that makes fish keep returning to the game, and enables the perpetual profitability of the game. Its easy to lose sight of just how crucial variance is and to see it as a foe rather than something that is not only great for the game but at its very core.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRwxijN_Upg

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I disagree strongly with that.

It DOES take a lot of time to love your child.

You can't love your child by telling him "I love you very much, off you go, daddy has to play poker". You love him with time spent laughing, talking, reading, writing, playing in park, going on vacation and so on.

P.S. I like your post very much, everything else is pretty much spot on.

+1
That's why I play poker. It allows me to spend the days with my daughter & wife.

P.S. Thanks for sharing, Assani. I think it's healthy to share & reflect with peer pros on the "real work" in poker: handling variance.

Thanks for the original post.

IMHO this should be in a digest somewhere if it isn't already.

Printed out and filed into my poker docs.

Thanks again, great post.

totally agree ,but 2. is my problem along with,MM spending after wins, etc, 3000 is perfect for 1-2 1-3,but mixing your poker roll with other games,sports, livinging,etc. is when u also end up w/problems

Deserves a bump