I brought him up, because he is a good example. There is an invisible rope in poker(). Some choose to hang them selves,some build bridge's and some tie others up. "Popularity contradicts proficiency".



People like dneg, I don't personally know Jim. But he help make the game and players have been yanked for stuff he has been applauded for. Not saying I know all the facts and such of not giving examples either.

If your loosing to someone buying you drinks you could say he's cheating me, getting me drunk. But your still playing ? So that's why it can be cruel(is). It's that time you say after going 3k in the hole to hita hot streak 3 hands later and run up 30k. If you get what I'm saying.



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If you can make 5k in 10 minutes you better believe there are some implications, period. How did you make the money in the first place?

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No, I don't really get what you're saying. Sorry.

Live ones are VERY often millionaires. the money lost at the poker game, no matter how they were drawn to it, means absolutely nothing to them.

its a moot point.

does the sun care about how much time it spends in the sky expending energy?

no because its the SUN. It has endless resources.

Does the live one care about how it gets its entertainment? No, because its a LIVE ONE. He could expend all the "energy" on buyins to the poker game and it literally means nothing to his bank account. on TOP of that the players are catering him to being nice and having a good time while losing.

If they truly wernt enjoying themselves win or lose, dinner or golf, they simply wouldnt even enter the casino.

Poker is hardly cruel.

Thankfully I only play 2/5 and 5/10 so the pool is vast, there is no one i know really by name that is a live one. You see faces, but i dont talk to them ever off the table.

Theres ALWAYS live ones at my stakes. All I do is be friendly to them and play poker. I'm not there to entertain, in 8 years of playing ive always done this. I know its different here at lower stakes, which is why i love it, no stress.

I think Poker itself is not cruel. Neither is it a noble pursuit. It is just a game of cards with money/anything else wagered. The core nature of poker is somewhat antagonistic. It's a zero sum game (negative sum if you consider rake). For you to win someone has to lose. There is no greater good being achieved here. This is not an activity where everyone involved leaves better off after participating in it.

But the game is not cruel. It can be played with honor and dignity. Some actors within this system behave cruelly.

But you would find that in almost any human system.

Government, Wall Street, Film Production Company..so many examples where you will find immoral/amoral/cruel/sociopathic/psychopathic actors being actively involved and doing well.

I imagine these are the same sorts of flimsy rationalizations that many people in and outside of the poker world conjure up in order to justify their misdeeds and make themselves feel just a little bit better about their abhorrent behavior.

Poker cruel? No, not by a long shot. It's a voluntary activity, people can make choices, and it's all relative I guess.

The toddler looking for something to eat by way of a filthy landfill in India is cruel. They have no choice. The mother in Africa walking 15 miles one way to find some leaves to feed her children, that's cruel. An elderly person sitting and starving in a tiny, unheated hovel, is cruel. The mentally ill mom that stabs her babies to death, look around, poker is not even close to being cruel.

A hyena gut-eating a baby wildebeest that's not even dead yet, nature knows no bounds when it comes to cruelty.

One only needs to turn CNN on for 10 minutes to view real cruelty.

Who is acting with cruelty when it comes to these examples?

Online or live, I won't feel bad about someone losing (I might feel bad about someone winning), but in a rare case it gets associated to someone close to me who has a gambling problem or losing for sure.

While if someone becomes a false friend to someone just to have him playing especially when he is at the table also, I am against it, as I don't pull nor push generally, and as so it is statistically away from me. It makes little difference to me what the ethics should be when it doesn't influence me, but everyone is different, making it your problem or not your problem.

If someone wants to push and pull, that is his nature, and maybe he feels warm, positive, friendly, happy about anyone benefitting him. And I think if someone feels uneasy about it, that is his problem, and as so you can talk with each other about it.

Yes it is but most of us still love the game.

Poker can be cruel and especially if it's a lifestyle. I choose not to become a sociopath in my life and would not like myself if I bumhunted like described in the OP. However I think it's part of poker and always will be. We love poker because it's human nature, survival, psychological warfare. We need poker skills in life even if we don't want to become pure cold-blooded poker players in all areas of life.

its a great question, and very cool that Mason still kicks it with us plebs

I agree, I think the zero sum nature of this game cultivates some great qualities. At the same time it makes the game cruel, and that cruelty manifests itself in all kinds of ways. Anger, insecurity, regret, etc- we see all kinds of negative emotions at almost every poker table, there is no getting around it.

I have no problem with predatory bumhunting, as long as the regs know it is their job to provide a warm/entertaining experience. The recs are your customers, but its possible to be kind and transparent about your motivations. Someone like John Bellande (JRB) seems like a great example of this.

No poker is not cruel

But the person in your example... being friends with someone until they lose their money and then ceasing contact with them.. is just a POS as a human being

Its just not good for poker and its image to have people like this. It makes ppl think gambling and poker is not far of a big fraud or scam etc...ANd the problem is they think they are just a crumb of the pie. but in the poker pie, 90% of the pie thinks theyre just a crumb

Anyway.. as other people have said too.. these people are often very wealthy. They did not achieve this by being dumb. They will know when someone is trying to fool them.. They would have interviewed many people in their career, signed many contract, met many ppl... its just hilarious that people think this millionaire / wealthy person wont 'know' they are being conned

But on a personal level? .. i genuinely dont care who i play. The game has to be fun. So whether im playing Isildur or the biggest whale.. If anything id probably be curious to play a pro like Isildur

I thought this thread was going to be about the cruelty/indifference of the game and of life. As presented it's more about how predatory is the game, and we all draw our own lines on that. As far as romancing stars at and even away from the table, that's probably a personality issue as much as anything.

― Arnold Rothstein