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Old 07-07-2018, 02:40 PM   #26
Shai Hulud
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Re: Myers Briggs Personalty Types and Poker

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Originally Posted by Darth_Maul View Post
Introversion/extroversion has nothing to do with being able to read people, nor with being interested in people. It has to do primarily with how the brain handles stimulation. Extroverts feed off social stimulation and are energized by it. Thus they love parties. Introverts are the opposite - their energy is drained by social stimulation and they require isolation ("me time") to re-energize. Thus they tend to hate parties, or at least enjoy them for only a short time.

Live poker can be a huge challenge for introverts because it involves extended social stimulation. So on breaks, for example, introverts will prefer to be by themselves - take a walk, listen to music or meditate, whatever. Extroverts will look for people to discuss hands with or have dinner with friends.
If introverts feel drained by social interaction and extroverts are energized by social interaction, I think it is fair to say introverts would tend to be less interested in people than extroverts. It's hard to be terribly interested in something you find physically draining.

I only find people interesting from an anthropological perspective. Interacting with them all the time is not fun for me. But I can still read tells fine as I don't need to be genuinely interested in or energized by someone to analyze their behavior.

There's really not that much social stimulation at the poker table. Not in the games I play. It's pretty typical for nobody to be talking to each other or just a couple people talking to each other while the rest are listening to music or whatever.
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Old 07-07-2018, 02:52 PM   #27
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Re: Myers Briggs Personalty Types and Poker

Well it’s not thinking they find draining, it’s being around people. Maybe they even have a higher affinity if not capacity for thought, their preference for analyzing behavior being arbitrary.

One of the most frustrating aspects of psychology is how loose the definitions are and its un-testability.
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Old 07-07-2018, 03:00 PM   #28
Darth_Maul
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Re: Myers Briggs Personalty Types and Poker

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Originally Posted by Shai Hulud View Post
If introverts feel drained by social interaction and extroverts are energized by social interaction, I think it is fair to say introverts would tend to be less interested in people than extroverts. It's hard to be terribly interested in something you find physically draining.
Introverts can be very interested in people just not in spending extended periods of time with them. In fact introverts are usually much better at in depth conversation than extroverts are. That's why we tend to prefer having coffee with a friend than attending a cocktail party. I enjoy talking with people about their lives (for about an hour or so) but I hate the prolonged periods of superficial chit-chat and small talk at parties.
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Old 07-07-2018, 03:02 PM   #29
Darth_Maul
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Re: Myers Briggs Personalty Types and Poker

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Originally Posted by Tuma View Post
Well itís not thinking they find draining, itís being around people. Maybe they even have a higher affinity if not capacity for thought, their preference for analyzing behavior being arbitrary.

One of the most frustrating aspects of psychology is how loose the definitions are and its un-testability.
Thinking is draining for everyone, introvert or extrovert. But when introverts are tired the last thing we want is to be around people.
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Old 07-07-2018, 04:10 PM   #30
Westhil8
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Re: Myers Briggs Personalty Types and Poker

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Originally Posted by Darth_Maul View Post
Introverts can be very interested in people just not in spending extended periods of time with them. In fact introverts are usually much better at in depth conversation than extroverts are. That's why we tend to prefer having coffee with a friend than attending a cocktail party. I enjoy talking with people about their lives (for about an hour or so) but I hate the prolonged periods of superficial chit-chat and small talk at parties.
I agree, in fact being introvert means enjoying himself's company.
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Old Today, 01:33 AM   #31
JeeeroyLenkins
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Re: Myers Briggs Personalty Types and Poker

The Myers Briggs is akin to the "fun what's your personality type quizzes on Facebook".

There's really zero evidence the Myers Briggs has any type of test validity or reliability which is why in psychology we don't use it for actual psychological assessments. I don't know much of the Five Factor Model but sounds like more evidence is needed on that one as well.

What's really scary is that I heard on NPR that some employers' HR departments have taken to using the Myers Briggs to "assess goodness of fit in an organization based on personality type." While there's certainly something to be said about how different people handle different environments, interactions, situations, etc...I'm not sure we want untrained people administering "personality assessments with zero reliability/validity" to determine whether or not you should get the job. That seems like a step down a slippery slope for sure.

Of course there are personality types, specific traits correlated with various types and so forth, but there are empirically supported and valid/reliable assessment tools that can help trained professionals make inferences and interpretations based on results that are normed for different demographics like age groups, levels of education, etc based on large sample sizes of the test results of thousands of test administrations when the tests are developed . Which helps determine which items/questions have statistically significant results in correlating responses to interpretations. (There's much more to it but I don't design the tests, just use them!).

Sure I get that this post is likely for fun and it's interesting to speculate which personalities might be best suited for poker (after all we know ourselves as poker players that individual traits such as patience, discipline, persistence, and self-awareness are all key traits of successful players). But as someone who has administered, scored, and interpreted hundreds of various psychological assessment measures that do have evidence of accuracy, reliability, validity in my continued training to becoming a clinical psychologist, I often feel the need to call out these "pseudo tests" as the "results not to be used for anything serious" silly quizzes they are.

And yes I have noticed my training and skills in psychology have helped me at the tables both online and live...especially in regards to mental game work, tilt control, discipline, awareness, and yes sometimes slightly in detecting tells or understanding human tendencies when gambling...but those last two sadly aren't the biggest areas that psychology has helped my poker game in. But if non-poker players ask if psychology gives me an edge...I tell them I can read not only the table but the entire poker room on tells! Makes for good cocktail party conversations...

I'll see myself out now.

Last edited by JeeeroyLenkins; Today at 01:41 AM.
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Old Today, 05:23 PM   #32
AKQJ10
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Re: Myers Briggs Personalty Types and Poker

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Originally Posted by JeeeroyLenkins View Post
There's really zero evidence the Myers Briggs has any type of test validity or reliability which is why in psychology we don't use it for actual psychological assessments. I don't know much of the Five Factor Model but sounds like more evidence is needed on that one as well.
Great post, thanks.

Part of the appeal of the MB is that the taxonomy is intuitive and probably has some validity in 90% of cases, albeit not rigorously verifiable. IOW someone has 85% of the traits of an ENFJ so their MB-savvy friends say, "You are so very ENFJ! How could anyone doubt a test that pegs you that well?" But there's no reason why you couldn't draw the taxonomy differently, and that sort of 85% match isn't going to produce publishable academic research unless it's very stable and observable across significant samples.

BTW as a possibly recovering academic I have a lot of respect for peer review but also for quantitative knowledge that doesn't pass peer review. We make probabilistic assessments all the time without statistically significant evidence, of course, especially at the poker table.


Anyway I have this ongoing debate with my wife (who also loves the Enneagram, sigh....). I like MBTI a lot for shorthand, but I take it with a grain of salt. She's less convinced by the lack of psychologists' buy-in into the MBTI because it just resonates with what she observes.

And that's tension is OK in my opinion. Although I wish she'd admit the tension.
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