blackjack = -ev / thread

You make some excellent points here but your conclusions are a little too exaggerated and dramatic.

Poker is only gambling in the short term. For winning players over the long term, winning is virtually guaranteed.

The only thing that could stop a winning player from winning in the long term is a serious tilting problem. But then they wouldn't be a winning player to begin with.

There are two aspects of addiction that come into play with poker. The compulsion to play - the adrenalin/anxiety rush that comes with each potentially winning hand. And the desperation that takes over when you have started to lose in a given session - that may cause you to try to escalate the stakes or increase the number of hands you play in order to get even.

The first part of the addiction is +EV. It will cause a winning player to play more. The second part is what differentiates a winning player from a losing player. If a poker player can identify when they are on tilt and has a plan to reduce/alleviate the tilt - then they can remain a winning player. It may be as simple as leaving the game. But it is definitely the danger zone for an addict.

I'm going to guess that OP has a much better than even chance of succeeding. Assuming he is highly skilled, his real worry is that he won't be able to stop himself when he is being compulsive and taking a -EV risk. Table games are just one way this can manifest.

My money is on OP - partly because I think he is skilled. But mostly because of his self awareness, brutal honesty, admission to himself and others of his issues and what appears to be his acceptance of his condition.
Poker is not necessarily gambling. But your point is well taken. There are some alcoholics who can drink in moderation. Nobody in the field of alcoholism wants to publicly address this phenomenon because it would appeal to about 100% of all alcoholics and most would destroy their lives attempting to drink in moderation...

There are tons of people addicted to food who have adjusted their eating habits appropriately and live healthy lives.

Perhaps a closer analogy to gambling would be sex addicts. They literally could live without sex but they absolutely cannot put themselves more than an arms length away from the source of their addiction. There are many sex addicts who live normal lives faithful to their significant other. It is possible. It is not easy but it is possible.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. OP has an aptitude for knowing what is -EV and what is profitable. It is rational. And it should be easy. But for an addict it isn't easy. Something will trigger the desire to gamble recklessly. Whether the temptation is table games or making a low % poker play in order to feed the daemons it doesn't really matter. What matters is OP's ability to identify that he is in the middle of it and "reset".

I wish you luck with this OP. Personally I applaud your courage.

UPDATE since this thread resurfaced.

Going on several weeks since my relapse. All is well. Nice steady winrate and getting ready for Thanksgiving with the family. I plan to take a couple of weeks off, relax, and bug my mom for home cooked meals

Mr. Rick, thanks for your post. I answer some of your questions/concerns in my post #44.

Incidentally, I tried to self ban from the table games, but apparently all the casinos I go to don't allow it. The self ban is an all or nothing ban from the casino. So that is out.

But I think something broke within me from a psychological standpoint. The act of actually trying to self ban from the table games and talking to security, pitbosses, etc really put some iron into the bars that cage my demon.

I guess at the subconscious level, I never really committed to quitting table games. But when I went to security to self ban, and filled out the forms (at the time I didn't know that you couldn't tailor your self ban) then I subconsciously made the committment.

Of course, I do not let this fool me into thinking that i'm cured or anything. But I've noticed a signficant reduction in my desire to play a table game. I don't even look at them or fantasize about them anymore.

I'm going to GA once a month. Went last week and it is a great booster shot and a reminder that 'this could be me'.

So all is well

nice dgi, good news,
time, when you go to the family, to begin this

I love this thread. Pretty much my feelings & experience almost exactly, as I'm sure is common.

I've learned a few tricks, but know it can be a tough road ahead.

sounds a little like my demon with video BJ and video poker all my readers know about on another forum im not allowed to mention here. for the last 2 years, i talk about how ive lost thousands of my poker winnings playing them games. and how it keeps me from ever having my bankroll much above 5000. in fact someone reposted this thread there thinking it would help me. the only really difference is i feel tempted to play when behind, instead of when ahead, when im bored and sick of folding and feel i cannot play good disciplined poker anymore. and ive not even been able to go a month without playing machines. am so ashamed of myself

thanks dgi, and others.

like the rules you have from the begining posts of the thread.

keep your pit game demon caged, i too let it loose after a win at a poker table. bad bad bad.

to work so hard at the brilliant game of poker....i simply cannot afford to piss it away to the -ev of the pit.

some may count cards i don't, i play poker, poker is where it is at.

gl thx again great posts.

Quick update since this thread resurfaced again...

I'm all set. I'm routing money to my aunt's bank account even as we speak.

Only problem is that after I put my business plan together, I realized I'm going to need more money

but that is okay, i'm sure I can either find some partners or figure something out...

ANyways, all is well. Have been pit game free since my last relaspe and have little desire to play those pit games

Cool story. "Red chip pro" runs like Jesus, gets to sit in an awesome blackjack game, runs like the opposite of Jesus, posts some BBV (the part about making the guy so jealous that you do this for a living, with red chips, was gold), and a promised G.A. trip report.

This is the best sub-forum for entertainment on the site imo.

To me the most entertaining but absurd proposition presented here is the self-identified compulsive gambler who thinks he can be a winning poker player. Not happening. But people can really convince themselves of almost anything.

"red chip pro" seems to have a very negative connotation the way you are using it.

After I subtract all my expenses, I make $4K - $8K per month and have done so for the last year and some change.

I guess it is your opinion that the only 'pros' are those making millions and playing WSOP on TV???

As a "red chip pro", I live a very comfortable life, work whenever the hell I want to, take vacations whenever I want to, and do whatever the hell I want to do when I want to do it.

So how is being a red chip pro a bad thing?

You probably haven't read the entire thread.

My life is my life. It wasn't easy and I will have an occassional slip. But i've been supporting myself with poker for the last two years.

As an addict, it takes an extreme amount of work and dedication. If you read the entire thread (which I know you haven't) you'd get a sense of what I have done, what I do, and what I will do.

GA and AA help, reading helps, posting in this forum helps, journalling helps, daily mantras help, meditation helps, and being consciously aware of it helps...

There are millions of addicts that manage to control their addictions and lead successful lives.

So why is it so hard to believe it is impossible for me?

If you are willing to do the mountains of work required....

Then all things are possible.

I've been lurking and reading threads for a little while now, and I really appreciate the pit game threads, whether written in serious style or humorous.

There aren't any nearby casinos, I've never even been in one, but I hope to play live someday. Because of threads like these, I've already told my family, if I ever go near the roulette, craps, or BlackJack tables, to club me over the head, take away my money, and drag me outside.