If you have it all worked out and have your gambling addiction under control when playing poker then what was the point of making this thread?

Part of having my addiction under control (and I lose that term hesistantly) is that I have to be honest and accountable for my slips and relapses which is why I posted here.

Also, to let people with addictions know that even with all the work and effort I put into this, I'm still prone to an occassional slip and that I can't be lax about thinking that i'm 'normal' because i'm not.

I know, its crazy reading this thread, I go back and forth and back and forth...

but that is just some of the peripheral crazziness of being an addict. It doesn't make a lot of sense and is often contradictory. So trying to find some measure of control over something that is sorta crazy is problematic to begin with...

But so far, i'm managing. All I can do is try and learn from my mistakes and put as many controls in place as possible.

Wow dgi great post and ty for sharing.
I think I have the exact background as you. Former degen that falls off the wagon once in a while.
I'm a student and play 200max plo as my only source of income. And plo tilts the crap out of you. Whenever I feel like my inner demon degen creeping up. I just immediatley self exclude for 12hrs.
Whenever I have a bad week or have a "episode' I just go back to my summary tilt book of all the poker psychology books I ever read and re-read it. It usually puts me on a new page and more positive mindset. Anywayz, found ur post helpful, ty gl

I think you should be careful not to justify your addiction through denial though. I'm not saying that to patronise you, but like you said you can wind up with a bunch of contradictions to explain the situation, and sometimes the reason those contradictions appear is because you want to make excuses.

I think it's possible to get a reign on addiction but is it curable when the person is constantly around the source? I remember watching some show about people addicted to food, I think it was called half ton man. There was a guy on it who battled with food addiction all his life, he lost a lot of weight but ended up putting it back on again and was stuck in a wheelchair. He said something along the lines of... "How can you stop your food addiction when you need to eat food to live" Basically, being addicted to some kind of drug could be easier to help because the person doesn't need the drug to live, they're not exposed to it and forced to consume it like they would be with food.

If poker is your only means to make money and you are dependent on it, that most likely will cause a lot of problems for you not matter how good a player you are when you have a gambling addiction. I hope things work out for you anyway, and I haven't said this stuff to be an A-hole, just being honest.

That's a really good rule. I think it can even be more important than your initial rule. There have been studies on this, and if you browse the BBV degen thread you can see multiple examples of situations where this could help. Basically, when people win big, and then lose, the tendency to gamble is much, much higher. A lot of people seem to be able to follow a stop loss unless they have been winning. You see it at the poker table all the time. Someone will be up a lot for a night, and ready to quit. They play one last hand take a beat (and still be up big), and proceed to lose way more than they were prepared to when they first arrived at the casino.

I've found this to be a big trigger for myself. Typically, I want to continue to play when I win, but if the win gets to be large, I get a bit euphoric. Lose even a little and pain sets in. Once that pain sets in, the only way to relieve it is win the money back.

The thing about addictions is that even if you can't get control of it, you can keep it from giving you problems. Recovering addicts are required to get to know themselves extremely well if they want to stay clean. They need to learn their triggers, and what could cause a relapse.

Not everyone is the same, some alcoholics can't be around alcohol at all, others who have been sober for years feel safe in bars and at parties.

I have experience in product development so i'd like to start a firm that takes 'ideas' and commercializes them. This firm would also help people bring their ideas to fruition.

There is a firm out their called "Invent Help" or something like that but they are a scam. They just send you a kit and you do the work yourself while they milk you for money.

My firm would be the opposite of that, work hand in hand with our clients through every phase of the product development. So we'd only be working with products we believed could turn a profit. As opposed to Invent Help which doesn't care if your product will ever be realized because their business model is to make money by charging their clients and not realizing products for the market.

For somethign like this, i'd need a lot of capital. $100K would be enough to start, and if successful, my firm could be a serious $M company in a couple of years. Timing should be good because in the next 2 years, economy should be recovering.

Not quite sure what i'm denying though. I admit I'm a degen gambler. I admit I have slips on occassion. I admit I don't have this all figured out. I admit that i'm endanger of going busto if I don't stop playing table games.

This is an interesting point. There is an argument to be made that being around the source is helpful as it desensitizes you.

Two years ago, I couldn't walk past a BJ or Roulette wheel without gambling. I say that in all seriousness. It was literally impossible for me to walk past a gaming table without gambling. If I had money in my pocket, it was going on the table. Furthermore, when I ran out, i'd run back home, grab more money, and come back.

Now, 99% of the time, I walk past those tables without an urge. It's only during specialized moments that I slip back to my old habits.

But, you do have a valid point. If I was never around the tables, it would be hard to have a slip right?

Lastly, I don't think I will ever be 'cured'.

I'm coming up on 2 years of supporting myself with poker. All in all, my slips have probably cost me about 7% of my total profit . SO it is signficant and it is an issue. But all in all, I'm doing okay. Have a decent standard of living, bills are paid and I work whenever I feel like it.

I've made my share of mistakes along the way, biggest one was taking a shot at 10/20NL when I was underrolled last year. HUGE mistake. But as far as poker goes, I have a good handle on it.

ANd now I have an exit plan. I'm fairly confident I can squirrel away $100K over the next couple of years. So in a sense, i'm at the halfway point and just need to make it 2 more years. And during this time, I won't lose site that i'm a degen and need to constantly be on guard.

I think it's good you have an exit plan or explore other options for yourself. If you make a living out of poker for now and can save to reach your goal then there's no reason to say you shouldn't be playing. The only thing I'd be worried about as far as the gambling addiction is concerned is whether you would have some kind of relapse during a hard time or a meltdown, something like that. I'm not saying I think you will, I can't know that, but if you were a good friend of mine that's the thing I'd be worrying about. Like, if you had a really f'd up day or something would you lose your cool and end up blowing your roll. If you build up a lot of money and have it at hand will it be safe during a time like that if it happened?

These are extremely valid points.

My biggest fear is that I do have some sort of meltdown and blow through $20K, $30K, etc. all in one day of degenness.

Part of my plan is to squirrel away money with a trusted family member. I don't have that set up yet, but it is somethign I will do over the next few months. In fact, probably because of this thread, i'll step it up and set it up over the next few weeks.

But yeah, you are right. All addicts are only a few triggers away from a thermo-nuclear meltdown. So I need to be aware of that and never forget. ANd likewise, get the appropriate safeguards in place.

procrastination,
pure and simple,
why not today, there is no time like today

Alcoholics that try to control their addiction by switching from vodka to beer..that always ends well...

Ahhh procrastination, my old nemesis...

My family does a family reunion every thanksgiving. So, I will set it up then.

Plus, I haven't even really started on a business plan yet, so that will give me time to put some preliminary stuff together. Even though i'm talking 2 years out, i'd like to have a skeleton put together first.

Good idea to keep money with fam. GL and update sometime.

dgi,

I realise there are virtual table games available online, but might not playing poker online be a better alternative than going to casinos where the table games are staring you in the face?

Just a question. You keep referring to yourself as an addict (to gambling I assume) yet you talk about playing poker all the time. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt the folks at GA condone their recovering followers playing poker just b/c it requires more "skill" than slots or sports betting. If you are an addict, should you even be in a casino at all?

Kind seems like a guy who goes to the bar every night, gets hooked on whiskey, admits he's an alcoholic, and decides he's gonna keep going back to the same bar every night, but just drink a few light beers from now on.

Not trying to be a buzz kill, but interested in your thoughts on this.

Holy **** dude, that story was intense.

Fair question.

I do not tell members at GA that i'm a poker player because it is very similar to your alcoholic analogy.

So why do I think its okay for me to play poker? It's not. But it is what it is. I tried to quit all forms of gambling for years and I was unable to do it. It ended up ruining my life and I still couldn't stop. So, I made a promise to the dark if you will, I swore that if I had to gamble, then at least if I do it with poker I could actually make a living out of it because poker is +EV if you are a winning player.

So, three years ago, I switch soley to poker and it took me about a year to become a solid winning player. During the last two years, i've had the occasional slip, but overall, i'm doing fairly well and life is good.

But it wasn't easy and it is still a work in progress.

I realize i'm a hypocrit, but it is what it is. I do not recommend for addicts to try to do what i'm doing. And if you've read some of my posts on this subject, then you'd see that I acknowledge that it is a LOT of work.

The reason I come on 2+2 psych forum is that it is part of my continuing therapy, along with GA meetings (that I got sorta lax on this past year).

But for what it's worth. My urges to 'gamble' are sooo much lower than they were 2, 3, 4 years ago. Of course, I do not think i'm cured or even close. BUt i've made enough progress to play poker 5 days a week without throwing my money away on degen games. In the past, it would have literally been impossible for me to walk past a BJ table or roulette wheel without gambling. Now, I do it on a daily basis.

If you are a gambling addict, how do you seperate the "+EV" part of poker (getting your money in good consistently and making good laydowns) from the "Gambling" part of the game (like maniacs who play reckless)? If you can have the discipline to lay down KQ consistently to an all in when you know your opponent has an A in his hand b/c it's -EV, how can you not relate that same logic to pit games? Maybe you should look at pit games that way...like calling off your whole stack with KQ when you know your opponent has an Ace....every hand...over and over and over again.

Seems a slippery slope for someone as hooked on gambling as you.

I wish you all the best with this though.

I've never quite thought about this.

hmmm....

Back in the day, I was a huge Chess player with a decent rating. So there is a lot of hardwiring in my head concerning 'strategy', reacting to opponents, etc. I also played a lot of sports where I had to act/react.

I think for me, poker falls into this category and as such i'm in a 'safe zone'. Poker is EXTREMELY active: you have to watch the board, your opponents, the bets, sizing, action, progression, etc. etc. so the overall effect is that it is an active competition. And since it is an active competition, 'I' am in control

Table games are not as active, they are more passive. Table games are nothing more than a form of bingo. You sit back and hope that gold falls from the sky. The only exception is Blackjack if you are counting cards, and I am not smart enough to count the cards in a 5 card shoe.

I will have to think on this some more.

But my gut feeling is that I have a whole lifetime of 'competition' related 'brain wiring' that poker falls into. But for whatever reason, my brain doesn't consider the 'passive' games like roulette, bingo, blackjack, etc a competition. And so, the demon owns me with those games and I lose control...

Again, i'll have to think about this some more.

Thanks for the question, great food for thought.

Thanks for this thread OP.

Sorry the demon got $2.2k, but this thread is worth much more than that.

i don't understand, what's the problem? 2-1 on blackjack and 10-1 on suited blackjack is NOT waking up the demon, it's smelling a +ev opportunity. i would rather do that all day then play poker if given the choice

you went into a hot spell in poker and cold spell at another +ev game, don't sound like a mental problem just a hot/cold streak

^wat

you are right there trix

First off.. don't get pissed when there is an action player in the game. If you wanna play with grandmas go find em. Second... that's what you get for slowrolling.

Ooooooo Kayyyyyy. Thank you for your insight. There is no problem. Got it. thanks.


OOOooooo Kayyyy thanks for not really reading my posts and imparting your wisdom and righteous beliefs.

You hit the nail right on the head. I was upset because the guy was an action player. Lord forbid, the last thing I want at the table is an action player. SHeesh, who wants to win thousands upon thousands of dollars. Not me. You are dead on accurate by deducing that all I want at the table are grandmas. Genuis deduction, way to read between the lines and get to the heart of the matter.

And Yes, everything that happened to me I brought on myself because I slow rolled someone. Had I not have slowrolled that guy, then everything would be alright. Thank you for your insight. In the future, i will try to not upset or offend the poker gods because when you do, bad things happen, as evident by my post.

Let my post serve as a warning, offend the poker gods at your own peril. That is your contribution to this thread correct? Bad things happen to bad people so when you offend the poker gods based on some arbitrary code of poker justice then you will encur their wrath and bad things will happen to you.

Incidentally, I play 5 days a week, have played THOUSANDS of games live and can count the # of people I slow rolled on one hand. So trust me when I say they all deserved it.