Why do Fish make the plays that they do?? Most Fish get it in as a 30% favorite on a regular basis and sometimes they hit (which sucks).

Quick example that I have seen at a casino at 1/2 NL in Florida
The flop contained and our fish called with 42 for only a flush draw to hit. This situation had lots of betting and action before the Fish even called

3 Players (Early, Fish, Late)
Early Checks, Fish bet 15 into a 20, Late Raises to 50, Early Reraises all in to 130, Fish Calls for 100 total, Late Calls 130 total
Fish can win (20+100+100+100=320) with Side Pot of 60

Back to Fish...
He calls his 100 stack with a 4 high flush draw and with action behind him who has shown strength by reraising the flop (however Fish may think that this player will call the bet which makes a larger pot).
Fish Pot Odds=(20+15+300/85)=335/85=3.9:1 -->25%
Hand Odds (9 outs)=((52-2-3)/9)=47/9=5.2:1 -->19%

Not correct odds to call because its 6% expensive and I assumed that the
3rd player will call the bet also

The hand plays out where the Fish was up against Top/Top and a better Flush Draw. (The Fishes Face was priceless when he saw the other diamonds)

To the Point:
1)What enticed the Fish to play a Flush Draw like this? Was it the Size of the Pot or type of draw or Both?
I'm convinced that Fish don't use Math make good decisions and in this case they don't use position either.

Adam

Lol, do you really think that fish think about whether their play is profitable or not? They think 'ZOMG, I has a flush draw, this time I'll get lucky and win - ARRRRRRR IN!'

Pretty much this.

If they did, they likely wouldn't be fish.

No it doesn't. If crappy hands couldn't suck out then no one would play crappy hands. If no one played crappy hands then it would be much, much harder to make money playing poker.

This thread belongs in OOT or something

Im sure they just dont care. Some people can make a professional living sports betting. I however, regularly donk away a bunch of money as I frankly have neither the time nor interest to get good enough to profit long term. I do however enjoy it, it is a hobby, and I enjoy winning when I do, even though long term I will almost certainly be a loser. It means nothing to me losing as Im paying for the fun of betting, and while the bookie would most probably consider me a betting "fish", it means nothing to me.

Poker has always interested me to an extent that I wanted to get good at it and make money. I have given enough time and energy to the game that I want to win every time I play, and take it seriously (and it pays for my betting ) Id imagine the "fish" you refer to play poker for the same reasons as I bet on sports. While it hurts when you lose, im sure they couldnt care either way.

They just want to gamble. People have different movitations for being in hands/playing poker.

You can kinda tell by the person who is playing - the other night I was playing a pretty social $10buy in MTT at a local club, and most of the ppl there are just there to have a bit of fun, play some cards, get away from their jobs/wives/kids etc. The same sorta thing applies to 1/2nl at the casino...people just wanna have a good time (I won that tourney BTW).

All those pot odds and %'s you mentioned don't play a part in it - the only thing they think in the 42 diamonds situation is "I'm on a flush draw, I'm gonna throw my money in here and have a go".

So - my advice? Notice who these people are, and try and take advantage of that. Don't EVER be rude to them...if they hit their flush just tell them "Nice hand" or something, and then stack them 15mins later when they do the same thing. gg fish.

first of all it depends on the definition of fish. Id just say playing non-optimal/not solid/making many mistakes.

IMO its impossible to describe "the mind of the fish", there are several different kinds of fishes - the gambling, tight, loose, passive, tilting/frustrated, chasing fishes.. and i am probably missing several kinds...

Sir, you beg the question. Move along. Nothing to see here.

our an idiot. theyre fish you ******. they dont know there is math and they dont know what pot odds are. jesus...

These are the same people who will play on a double zero roulette wheel when there is a single zero wheel available. Some people really dont give a **** about the odds.

This play probably made him a better player, if he thinks about it that is.

And if not this time, then maybe next time. Some people learn slow.

Why on earth does it even bother you? It's good, so enjoy it.

To actually answer the question though, most people just don't really care enough or have the time to put in the kind of study needed to win long term, and as long as they're having fun why should they? I mean, does the average guy have time to study 10 hrs a week and play 30+?? Helllllllll no. But that doesn't mean they won't want to play sometimes all the same. If they can buy in, they are entitled to play as they wish. There are no rules. Don't assume either that you are better or that they are foolish for not playing their odds correctly and making other mistakes. Chances are they probably just aren't willing to put in the time that more serious players do, hence the term "rec player." In spite of those shortcomings, every once in awhile such players can still completely destroy you if they happen to be good at preventing you from realizing your equity and get max value from you every time they do hit. People chasing outside of their odds generally only matters as long as they will not be rewarded when they get there.

Another factor is that most people (at least in my experience) are not naturally gifted at math. Most people struggle with math, especially on the fly without pen & paper or a calculator. Again, it doesn't mean they are stupid. It means they require more study than someone with a gift in this area, which goes back to most people flat out being unwilling or unable to put in that kind of time.

I hope this answers your query. Do not judge or look at fish with condescending attitudes (unless they are A-holes...). Instead empathize with them, understand where they come from and why they are the way they are. Because only once you know them can you completely own them.

fish never folding Flush draws, i don't care what odds they are getting. it's same reason why people play blackjack or roulette. even when they know they are not the favor they just want to gamble (although i would say most bad gambler thinks they can have an edge in black jack if they alter bets at the "right" time or "count" cards, which they do very poorly

What you are talking about is EXACTLY what you want. If you are the one raising two pair+ and the fish wants to gamble with a naked flush draw, you are winning a ton long term. If fish were not fish and everyone played "right" - it would be hard to turn a profit.

Here is an example:

Hero raises to $6 with 55
Fish #1 calls.
Fish #2 calls.

Flop = Qc7c5d
Hero bets, fish 1 calls, fish 2 raises
Hero shoves for $350
Fish CALLS 350
Fish 2 folds

Fish 1 has nut flush draw and misses. Hero wins huge pot.

Fish LOVE to call and they love to gamble.
They didn't drive to the casino to fold
They look at poker just like blackjack
They lack patience
When they see a big pot, they think they are getting odds
They see all that money and get greedy
That is what we want
Once in the while the fish win. That is called feeding the fish.
Do your best to say nice hand and make them think they are a genius.
Make them confident in their incompetence.
These are recreational players looking to have fun and it just isnt fun to fold
It's fun to GAMBLE.

Personally, I find it more fun to WIN. But everyone can do with their money what they want and thats what keeps the game going. Bad beats are part of the game and good players take them more than bad players. Bad players issue bad beats.

op assumes fish thinks lol

this is a good point. some people trash bad players when they get lucky, and it makes no one happy. sometimes bad players are just rich people looking to have fun, they are okay losing money to you as long as they have a good experience. just make them comfortable at the game. also talk to them and keep them entertained, don't just show up at live game and hide in your hoodie and play like a robot.

This can certainly be a good thread and your posts are welcome, but addressing the OP is rather pointless. He made this thread 5.5 years ago and was last on 2+2 almost 3 years ago.

I missed that and assumed it was a new thread. I didn't realize that panda84 had decided to necro a thread which has been dead for nearly 6 years for no apparent reason. Judging from the other posts before and after mine, I don't think I'm the only person who didn't realize this.

ya i didn't realize it either lol