Ivey's views on getting coolered - Psychology in Poker and Gambling

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Ivey's views on getting coolered

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06-12-2021 , 02:51 PM

Brodsky418

newbie

Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 25

Probably a fair amount of you have seen Joey Ingram's interview with Ivey.

At one point, Joey asks how Ivey deals with losing massive pots when he knows that he played it well. Ivey's reply: "I love it." He went on to say that it's such a natural part of the game that you have to enjoy those moments too.

In full honesty, what do people here think that it would take to reach a mental place where losing a big pot could be even an enjoyable experience?!

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06-12-2021 , 06:09 PM

Mason Malmuth

Former Top Dog

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 13,010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodsky418

Hi Brodsky:

The answer here is simple and it's covered in a couple of my books. The key is to understand that variance is good for a top payer like Ivey. He clearly understands that if he won every time, meaning that the variance in poker would be close to zero, they he would have no games to play in.

See my latest book Cardrooms: Everything Bad and How to Make Them Better for a discussion of the "Proper Balance of Luck and Skill:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1880685647...=UTF8&qid=&sr=

Best wishes,
Mason

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06-14-2021 , 05:13 AM

Brodsky418

newbie

Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 25

Hi Mason,

I understand his reasoning – I'm just curious at what level that same consciousness tends to sink in among low stakes grinders

.

Thanks for your response and the link to your book!

Best,
Brodsky

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06-14-2021 , 06:42 PM

JayKon

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,444

I wouldn't say "I love it", but some time back I got coolered and when I saw it and said "nice hand", I discovered I meant it. It comes from a deep understanding of what is going on. Besides, providing positive feedback to someone for playing badly is ultimately going to cause them to lose ... and they won't understand why.

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06-14-2021 , 07:35 PM

matt57225

adept

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 749

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayKon

How is coolering someone playing badly?

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06-14-2021 , 07:39 PM

matt57225

adept

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 749

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodsky418

Hi Mason,

I understand his reasoning – I'm just curious at what level that same consciousness tends to sink in among low stakes grinders

.

Thanks for your response and the link to your book!

Best,
Brodsky

If anyone gets coolered over and over they get frustrated. The more poker you play the less frustrating it gets because you start to just accept it more and move on. Also, you will learn what is and what isn't a cooler. A cooler should not really upset you that much because its unavoidable.

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06-14-2021 , 07:52 PM

Mason Malmuth

Former Top Dog

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 13,010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodsky418

Hi Mason,

I understand his reasoning – I'm just curious at what level that same consciousness tends to sink in among low stakes grinders

.

Thanks for your response and the link to your book!

Best,
Brodsky

Hi Brodsky;

I agree with your implication. Most low limit players don't understand how good variance is for the game, and some high limit players are probably deficient in this area. Obviously, Ivey does not have this issue.

There's also much discussion of this same idea in my book Real Poker Psychology. Here's an excerpt from page 8:

Let’s look at an example. It’s no-limit hold ’em and you’ve flopped top two pair against your weak playing opponent’s bottom pair and somehow he calls your bet when you move all-in. Notice that this is a pretty good spot and your opponent’s chance of winning can be as low as 8 percent, approximately a 12-to-1 shot, depending on the exact cards that are out. However, 12-to-1 shots do come in, and when this happens it can be quite annoying.

But there’s another side to this. Suppose the 12-to-1 shot could never come in. That is, the probability of your weak playing opponent winning this hand is not in the 8 percent range but is actually zero. What does this mean?

Well, it’s my opinion that there wouldn’t be any poker games since it has now turned into a game like tennis where the weaker player virtually never wins. The fact that the expert does occasionally get drawn out on is the hook that keeps the games good. So what this means is that having the weak player win a few pots like this, and having some winning nights as well, is not only good for the game, but good for you.

Also, here's a link to the Amazon page:

https://www.amazon.com/Real-Poker-Ps...s%2C217&sr=8-1

In addition, I read every now and then that my book has little to nothing in it about poker psychology. Either these people have not read it or have no understanding what "real poker psychology" is about.

Best wishes,
Mason

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06-14-2021 , 07:56 PM

Mason Malmuth

Former Top Dog

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 13,010

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayKon

Hi Jay:

I agree with everything that you say. In addition, let me point out that your positive comments will help assure that this bad playing opponent keeps playing for a long time. And that's probably the most important attribute of them all.

Best wishes,
Mason

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06-14-2021 , 08:00 PM

Mason Malmuth

Former Top Dog

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 13,010

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt57225

Hi matt:

In addition, everyone who plays poker seriously needs to understand that if you play long enough the probability of getting coolered is 1. That is it definitely will happen. But this is part of the "hook" that keeps these bad players playing. Again, there's more discussion of this in my psychology book.

Best wishes,
Mason

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06-23-2021 , 09:42 PM

#10

zinzir

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth

In addition, I read every now and then that my book has little to nothing in it about poker psychology. Either these people have not read it or have no understanding what "real poker psychology" is about.

Best wishes,
Mason

I see plenty of psychology just in those paragraphs from the book included in your quote, and I will definitely read the book once I get my fundamentals in order. One of the books that helped me a lot is "Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players", by you and David Sklansky, thank you for writing it.

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07-15-2021 , 05:16 AM

#11

Whoseeps

banned

Join Date: Nov 2020 Posts: 3

I think that follow mixed up point that we gain from playing and other who are experts

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08-26-2021 , 07:22 PM

#12

Liveidiot

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 302

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodsky418

Bankroll management is very importsnt for this. Low stake recs often dont care for that aspect.

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09-13-2021 , 11:32 PM

#13

Mason Malmuth

Former Top Dog

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 13,010

Quote:

Originally Posted by zinzir

Hi zinzir:

Don't buy the book right now. An expanded version of Real Poker Psychology should be out in about a month. We have told Amazon not to sell the original version but they still have it up.

Best wishes,
Mason

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09-26-2021 , 10:39 AM

#14

MrHrafn

enthusiast

Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 90

I have found that once you have reached your potential like Ivey and played and won you can smile at those because you know you will get your turn and it could be even worse for them. Most problems here come from
not having the experience of how such things are like a circle and go round and round. Also the bad gamblers need to win now and get out, they call it a " balloon" as in luckmoney that you end up giving back. I think if you get coolered to.much you are playing to low, small stakes is nothing what PIvey is in, it is true who ever give him that beat is probably not very good and will be supporting Phil as long as he plays.

Last edited by MrHrafn; 09-26-2021 at 10:50 AM.

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