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Old 06-15-2021, 01:49 PM   #1
zinzir
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How to "get a grip"

My biggest leak is poor self control during post flop play, which leads to bigger losses than expected for the strength of my hands. When reviewing my losing hands I am continuously amazed by how bad my post flop decisions were. Nevertheless, I make the same type of errors over and over again, failing to apply my hard earned knowledge, incapable of learning from my own mistakes.

Dan Harrington said: "As the pots get large, it becomes hugely important to bear down and focus on the hand. An amazing number of players do just the opposite; as the pots grow, they play faster and faster, as if to convince you they're in total control. Get a grip and don't fall into this most dangerous of traps." I am that player and want to follow Dan's advice, but don't know how to "get a grip". Any advice?
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Old 06-15-2021, 04:23 PM   #2
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Re: How to "get a grip"

Your answer is in your question.
You get a grip by getting a grip.
You get self control by learning self control.

There are tons and tons of videos about this on YouTube, go watch some and start practicing!

There's also a book called "The mental game of poker" which explains in detail how to deal with several tilt and mental issues, like yours.
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Old 06-16-2021, 01:47 AM   #3
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Re: How to "get a grip"

Doctor, doctor, it hurts when I do this.

Then don't do that.
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Old 06-16-2021, 03:03 PM   #4
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Re: How to "get a grip"

Guys, I didn't post this thread looking for clownish antics or word of the wise. What I'm hoping for is someone who had this particular problem and was able to overcome it tell us what actually worked in his case.

This is a common problem, so if someone out there succeeded in overcoming it, his experience would help not only myself, but all the other readers who have the same problem. Thank you in advance.
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Old 06-16-2021, 06:23 PM   #5
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Re: How to "get a grip"

I am serious.

You seem to think that there is some magic formula, pill, or procedure that will get you to do what you want to do, but declare that you just can't. There isn't.

It sounds like you just don't want to apply yourself and take responsibility for your own actions. Well, taking responsibility for your own decisions is really the only answer.

But, if you like being a victim, there are lots of people who will agree with you. So, knock yourself out.

Sorry if you feel that's too harsh. But, it really is the only true answer.
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Old 06-16-2021, 07:17 PM   #6
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Re: How to "get a grip"

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Originally Posted by JayKon View Post
I am serious.

You seem to think that there is some magic formula, pill, or procedure that will get you to do what you want to do, but declare that you just can't. There isn't.

It sounds like you just don't want to apply yourself and take responsibility for your own actions. Well, taking responsibility for your own decisions is really the only answer.

But, if you like being a victim, there are lots of people who will agree with you. So, knock yourself out.

Sorry if you feel that's too harsh. But, it really is the only true answer.
It's not that you are harsh, you are simply not helpful. What do think you're doing here, giving me tough love? Where in my thread did I say I wasn't working on my problem? Where did you get that idea from?

Ironically though, this thread applies more to you than to me. You're also incapable of learning from your mistakes, since you are a veteran on the forum and still make that type of posts. The difference is that you don't even know you have the problem, so I am at least a step ahead in overcoming it.
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Old 06-16-2021, 07:37 PM   #7
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Re: How to "get a grip"

While JayKon is a bit crude, they're right.

I gave you real advise, go to YouTube, type in "How to build self discipline" or even "How to get a grip" and watch some videos, then start applying what you learn in those videos.

Get a mental game coach if you like spending a lot of money.

Or buy the book I mentioned, which deals specifically with tilt problems in poker.

Why are you back here crying instead of doing any of these things?
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Old 06-16-2021, 08:38 PM   #8
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Re: How to "get a grip"

Quote:
Originally Posted by zinzir View Post
It's not that you are harsh, you are simply not helpful. What do think you're doing here, giving me tough love? Where in my thread did I say I wasn't working on my problem? Where did you get that idea from?

Ironically though, this thread applies more to you than to me. You're also incapable of learning from your mistakes, since you are a veteran on the forum and still make that type of posts. The difference is that you don't even know you have the problem, so I am at least a step ahead in overcoming it.
Dude, I mostly conquered my demons a long time ago, so I know you're just venting. That's OK though.

You're confusing the bad, but comfortable and familiar behavior, with the behavior you know is better for you. But changing behavior can be terrifying! You don't really "know" what will happen. However, continuing to behave the same is known and comfortable - even though it causes you pain.

That's where truly making a decision to change makes the difference. When you hit one of those points, just stop and ask yourself: "what do I really want to do?"

It is hard. Because you're venturing into the unknown. Because you're the one in control and no one else.

In short, it's called growing up and becoming an adult - something some people in their 60's haven't done.
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Old 06-16-2021, 09:31 PM   #9
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Re: How to "get a grip"

There goes my luck. Two people with obviously no direct knowledge about the subject sabotaged the thread. Folks have a hard time posting their personal experiences and struggles anyways, after this type of interference forget about it...
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Old 06-16-2021, 10:14 PM   #10
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Re: How to "get a grip"

Ya, I guess you are out of luck. Pity really, but then with the garbage they teach in school today I'm not that surprised. I'll say it one last time:

You are responsible for yourself. You make your own decisions. If you don't like the results, you and only you are responsible.

...

I know a solution for you and I guarantee results, but I'm 100% sure you'll hate it.

Join the U.S. Marine Corp.
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Old 06-17-2021, 09:35 PM   #11
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Re: How to "get a grip"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan View Post
While JayKon is a bit crude, they're right.

I gave you real advise, go to YouTube, type in "How to build self discipline" or even "How to get a grip" and watch some videos, then start applying what you learn in those videos.

Get a mental game coach if you like spending a lot of money.

Or buy the book I mentioned, which deals specifically with tilt problems in poker.

Why are you back here crying instead of doing any of these things?
OMG, thank you from the bottom of my heart for listing those resources. I would have never known about them if it wasn't for you. I'm a little surprised you didn't mention Google, I had to discover it all by myself...
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Old 06-17-2021, 09:42 PM   #12
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Re: How to "get a grip"

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Originally Posted by JayKon View Post
Ya, I guess you are out of luck. Pity really, but then with the garbage they teach in school today I'm not that surprised. I'll say it one last time:

You are responsible for yourself. You make your own decisions. If you don't like the results, you and only you are responsible.

...

I know a solution for you and I guarantee results, but I'm 100% sure you'll hate it.

Join the U.S. Marine Corp.
Okay, Mr Marine, that explains it. You like to see things go down in flames, so what you did to my thread feels like a victory to you. You conquered your own demons like the military conquered Korea, Vietnam, Irak and Afganistan. In reality the demons are fine and dandy, just like the Taliban...
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Old 06-17-2021, 10:20 PM   #13
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Re: How to "get a grip"

I tried to teach you not to be a victim, but apparently, you insist. Maybe, just maybe some of this got through your victim mentality and will surface at some point in the future. Sooner, or later, you will learn that there is no magic bullet, only discipline - which is really all you need.

Good luck in life, you'll need it.
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Old 06-17-2021, 11:18 PM   #14
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Re: How to "get a grip"

Quote:
Originally Posted by zinzir View Post
Okay, Mr Marine, that explains it. You like to see things go down in flames, so what you did to my thread feels like a victory to you. You conquered your own demons like the military conquered Korea, Vietnam, Irak and Afganistan. In reality the demons are fine and dandy, just like the Taliban...
Well, I was going to post a helpful response but after hearing your disdain and hatred for the US armed forces, I think Ill pass.
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Old 06-18-2021, 09:02 PM   #15
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Re: How to "get a grip"

Guys, this thread was damaged beyond repair. Let's stop posting here so it can slide down the line into oblivion.
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Old 06-18-2021, 10:22 PM   #16
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Re: How to "get a grip"

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Guys, this thread was damaged beyond repair. Let's stop posting here so it can slide down the line into oblivion.
You can lock it yourself and keep people from replying, if youd like.
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Old 06-18-2021, 10:23 PM   #17
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Re: How to "get a grip"

Actually, maybe you can’t. I thought you could but I didn’t see the option on one of my threads so maybe not.
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Old 06-19-2021, 06:01 AM   #18
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Re: How to "get a grip"

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Originally Posted by zinzir View Post
Guys, this thread was damaged beyond repair. Let's stop posting here so it can slide down the line into oblivion.
Is this your attitude towards everything?
Just cry and blame others? Then keep coming back just to cry more?

No wonder you suck at poker.
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Old 06-19-2021, 12:40 PM   #19
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Re: How to "get a grip"

He is clearly young and the product of a system that has told him he's somehow entitled to something. I doubt he ever got a serious spanking, no matter what he may have done to deserve one.

This seems to have resulted in a person that cares far, far more about himself than others and fails to understand why people are mean to him. So, he strikes back.

On the plus side, at some level, he seems to know it. That's good. It's why I've actually given him solid, if more than a bit harsh, advice.
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Old 06-19-2021, 06:32 PM   #20
zinzir
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Re: How to "get a grip"

I wonder how messed up in the head you have to get in order to start believing that calling too much with second pair is reason to seek counseling or join the Marines. Speaking of getting a grip...
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Old 06-19-2021, 09:14 PM   #21
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Re: How to "get a grip"

That sir, is a combination of denial and deflection. This stopped being about your initial post a while ago. Besides, I don't recall you posting that you called with second pair. Besides, that would be called a "bluff catcher" and is a completely legitimate play.

You have a lot of anger and self-control issues and don't seem to want to admit very much of it.
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Old 06-20-2021, 09:05 PM   #22
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Re: How to "get a grip"

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That sir, is a combination of denial and deflection. This stopped being about your initial post a while ago. Besides, I don't recall you posting that you called with second pair. Besides, that would be called a "bluff catcher" and is a completely legitimate play.

You have a lot of anger and self-control issues and don't seem to want to admit very much of it.
It's not only calling with second pair, that was just an example. Other examples would be calling with top pair medium kicker and even top pair top kicker, the lower end of a straight, three pair or a straight with three to a flush facing up, a straight or a flush when the board pairs. And examples could continue, but what difference does it make since the concept is the same?

As Harrington said in that quote, when pots gets larger the player needs to slow down and go through the way the hand had unveiled itself, analyze the betting and make an informed decision about his next move. I get excited by the tension of the pot getting larger and instead of slowing down I play faster and make mistakes, failing to fully utilize the knowledge acquired by studying the game. These mistakes add up in time, and result in one of the leaks that, if successfully plugged, would allow me to exceed the novice player level.

That is the problem I'm working on and I'm not complacent about it, I'm not crying about it, and I'm not blaming others for it.

And if you lived up to a certain age and didn't realize by now that admitting your shortcomings, not only in poker but in any area of your life, is a sign of strength and not weakness, I don't know what else to tell you.

If you are interested in discussing things like anger management, psychological instability, or reasons to join Marines, you could simply start your own threads and look for people who share the same interest. There is no shame in doing that, and, besides, you are not fooling anyone by projecting your own issues on others.

PS: Any hand above Ace high could be used as a bluff catcher, but you need strong evidence from the betting pattern and/or other tells that there is a likelihood of a bluff in progress in order to utilize it for that purpose, which highlights once again the importance of slowing down and analyzing everything that went on in the hand, when the pot gets larger.
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Old 06-20-2021, 10:16 PM   #23
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Re: How to "get a grip"

Well, that was a clear and cogent description. OK then. I would suggest taking up Tai Chi, breathing exercises and meditation. Once you internalize these things (takes 6 months to a lifetime), taking a deep breath, or two will calm you right down. It can help with your anger issues too.

Go talk to a Tai Chi master for some details.
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Old 06-21-2021, 08:16 PM   #24
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Re: How to "get a grip"

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Go talk to a Tai Chi master for some details.
Okay, I'll start shopping around for a ticket to either Mainland China or Hong Kong.
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Old 06-21-2021, 09:27 PM   #25
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Re: How to "get a grip"

Open google maps and type in Tai Chi. There are Tai Chi masters all over the US.

Unless you're being sarcastic again. In which case I can only conclude you don't want help, and just want to cry.
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