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Old 07-20-2018, 07:17 AM   #1
Mr.Jones
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How to avoid chasing poker losses in the pits?

Been struggling with when I have a losing poker session, as I'm walking out of the casino I'll put down a big bet on red/black, or the pass line with max odds.

I almost never play table games. It's only these *one time* bets, as I'm leaving the casino, if I bust out in a cash game.

If I win in the cash games, I confidently walk by the table games on the way out and don't even blink an eye.

My temporary fix has been to bring only one poker buy in with me, so if I lose it I can't be tempted to get a quick double up in the pits.

Unfortunately I don't always have time to stop at home, to drop off the extra cash if I have more than a buy in on me, before heading to the casino.

In those situations I've tried leaving the extra money in my car. But if I bust out, all logic goes out the window, and I'm more than likely going to grab some money from my car and come back for a 1 time bet quick double up. Then leave.

Also, only having one buy in limits me because if I'm in a good game and take a beat, I can't reload. But I guess that's ok because most of the time I'm not playing my A game after I reload anyway.

How do you guys recommend I fix this issue?

Thanks

Last edited by Mr.Jones; 07-20-2018 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 07-20-2018, 08:33 AM   #2
Darth_Maul
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Re: How to avoid chasing poker losses in the pits?

First, do some reading about the sunk costs fallacy and the loss aversion bias. It is fascinating to learn how flawed our psychology is and how it causes us to do very irrational things. Learning about it does contribute to empowerment.

Second, make a commitment to walk out after a losing session without making stupid bets and write it down on a piece of paper. Put it somewhere you'll see it, like on your fridge or whatever. Next, develop a system of punishment to program yourself out of the problem behavior. Every time you break your commitment you punish yourself.
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Old 07-20-2018, 01:20 PM   #3
antialias
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Re: How to avoid chasing poker losses in the pits?

Quote:
Been struggling with when I have a losing poker session, as I'm walking out of the casino I'll put down a big bet on red/black, or the pass line with max odds.

I almost never play table games. It's only these *one time* bets, as I'm leaving the casino, if I bust out in a cash game.
So, you end a losing session by putting more money on something where you know you are an underdog?

Getting more into the math side of the game might help to accept bad beats (and it will certainly not hurt your game, either)
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Old 07-21-2018, 06:56 AM   #4
Mr.Jones
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Re: How to avoid chasing poker losses in the pits?

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Originally Posted by antialias View Post
So, you end a losing session by putting more money on something where you know you are an underdog?

Getting more into the math side of the game might help to accept bad beats (and it will certainly not hurt your game, either)
I have very strong math skills, and a very strong acceptance and understanding of variance and beats. That's not the issue.

Psychologically something is wrong with me where all math, reason, and logic disappear if my session is over and I'm down atleast a buy in and I walk past the sucker games. I'm willing to take the worst of it if it means possibly doubling, and getting the buy in back.

Which is absolutely retarded, I get it. I understand poker is a never ending session and you're going to have dips in your graph.

It's just in that moment after a loss, probably doesn't fade until about an hour, I lose control.
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Old 07-21-2018, 04:21 PM   #5
BDHarrison
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Re: How to avoid chasing poker losses in the pits?

So, basically, your problem stems from being willing to gamble to avoid being a loser for the night. Some cash game players will re-buy and play overaggressively and try to win a big pot when they are down so they can get back to even. What you are doing is pretty much the same thing.

So, the solution probably lies in analyzing why it bothers you so much to leave the casino down for the night.
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Old 07-24-2018, 01:26 PM   #6
antialias
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Re: How to avoid chasing poker losses in the pits?

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I have very strong math skills, and a very strong acceptance and understanding of variance and beats. That's not the issue.
If you gamble on a losing proposition then you either don't have as much math skills as you think you do...or you're not using them. (sorry if this sounds harsh)

Personally I just analyze the hand where I lost.
Was it my mistake: OK, go home, learn from it.
Did I get outplayed? Ok, go home, learn from it.
Was I a favorite but I got unlucky? It happens. That's what luck means.

(And yes, I busted on a hand where I was 70/30 favorite just last weekend. Would I play the hand differently in the future? No. So no reason to get upset)
In any case I'm already deep in analysis mode when I go by the roulette tables on the way to the parking lot. No chance I'd even notice them.
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Old 07-25-2018, 02:30 AM   #7
Mr.Jones
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Re: How to avoid chasing poker losses in the pits?

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Originally Posted by antialias View Post
If you gamble on a losing proposition then you either don't have as much math skills as you think you do...or you're not using them. (sorry if this sounds harsh)
.

You're missing the point dude. I 100% understand I am betting my money on a long term LOSING game when I am leaving the casino. I know you can't beat the game, I know the house always wins long term, and I know what my % of winning is. I'd rather have a 48.6% chance of doubling my bet, then continue to experience the despair I feel going home down money.

In that moment, I don't give a ****, and I make the bet anyway. That's the problem, whatever's ticking in my brain to make me lose control, and not give a ****.

That's what I'm trying to fix, the impulse control, the short term gratification, the feeling of having to get even. It has nothing to do with my math skills.
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Old 07-27-2018, 02:14 PM   #8
antialias
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Re: How to avoid chasing poker losses in the pits?

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In that moment, I don't give a ****, and I make the bet anyway.
Which is exactly what I said:
Quote:
either don't have as much math skills as you think you do...or you're not using them.
When you really start to believe in the math (and take yourself fully out of the game) then you will no longer have this problem.

The money is something personal to you - or it wouldn't affect you like it does. So you're not really divested of it. You're still thinking in dollars instead of big blinds.

It's a game. Treat it as such.
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Old 07-27-2018, 07:59 PM   #9
WorldzMine
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Re: How to avoid chasing poker losses in the pits?

If you are irrational when it comes to this then you are probably irrational in your thinking in many ways. You should work on your rationality in general, and work to eliminate as much irrationality from your thinking and life as possible. Eg., things like religion or any other mysticism, etc.
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Old 07-29-2018, 01:22 PM   #10
Caterina
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Re: How to avoid chasing poker losses in the pits?

Hello,

You state yourself that it is something irrational, that leads you to do something you clearly do not want to do. It is a common problem, we have a strong emotion, that makes us act "without thinking".


My suggestion stems from personal experience, but I'm not expert in psychology or anything.
In the DBT (a therapy originally for borderline patients) a crucial part are "mindfulness exercices" that help you, to get better aware of your emotions and detach them from your actions.
I suggest, you read a little about them and try them out (just a few weeks of 10 mins daily exercise).
So, when down for the session, instead of walking to the pits, you can observe the emotion that makes you act irrational and then decide how you want to act.

Developing "anticraving" skills could also be helpful. I mean, you don't sound like an addict, but this is somewhat a similar behaviour pattern.

Good luck!
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Old 07-30-2018, 03:01 PM   #11
Mr.Jones
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Re: How to avoid chasing poker losses in the pits?

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Originally Posted by Caterina View Post
Hello,

You state yourself that it is something irrational, that leads you to do something you clearly do not want to do. It is a common problem, we have a strong emotion, that makes us act "without thinking".


My suggestion stems from personal experience, but I'm not expert in psychology or anything.
In the DBT (a therapy originally for borderline patients) a crucial part are "mindfulness exercices" that help you, to get better aware of your emotions and detach them from your actions.
I suggest, you read a little about them and try them out (just a few weeks of 10 mins daily exercise).
So, when down for the session, instead of walking to the pits, you can observe the emotion that makes you act irrational and then decide how you want to act.

Developing "anticraving" skills could also be helpful. I mean, you don't sound like an addict, but this is somewhat a similar behaviour pattern.

Good luck!
+1 good stuff
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Old 09-14-2018, 09:19 AM   #12
Chiggs
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Re: How to avoid chasing poker losses in the pits?

Yes whoever mentioned mindfulness exercises is on the ball here.

What you want to practice is getting an understanding of the physiological signs that arise in your body when you feel tilted and want to gamble.

Common ones here are:
  • Lump in the throat
  • Tight chest
  • "Foggy" or "hazy" mind

The best way to get good at noticing these signs is to practice these two types of mindfulness meditations:
  1. Body Scan
  2. Walking

If you want more info feel free to DM me
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Old 10-28-2018, 08:06 PM   #13
Nozsr
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Re: How to avoid chasing poker losses in the pits?

It just occurred to me that (no offense intended) there are SOME (not saying anyone who posts in this thread, just SOME) poker players whose EV in the pit games is (while negative) still BETTER than if they were playing poker.

Problem is, the speed of the pit games will wipe anyone out sooner (clock time) than playing -EV poker will.
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Old 11-01-2018, 08:08 AM   #14
bodybuilder32
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Re: How to avoid chasing poker losses in the pits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Jones View Post
You're missing the point dude. I 100% understand I am betting my money on a long term LOSING game when I am leaving the casino. I know you can't beat the game, I know the house always wins long term, and I know what my % of winning is. I'd rather have a 48.6% chance of doubling my bet, then continue to experience the despair I feel going home down money.

In that moment, I don't give a ****, and I make the bet anyway. That's the problem, whatever's ticking in my brain to make me lose control, and not give a ****.

That's what I'm trying to fix, the impulse control, the short term gratification, the feeling of having to get even. It has nothing to do with my math skills.
Are you a winning poker player? It doesn't seem like you are. If you were then you would view sitting in the poker game as your best chance of making the money back.

Trying to get it all back in one minute makes me think you are a SERIOUS DEGENERATE tilt monkey. You probably make horrific gambles in poker when you are stuck.


Also, doesn't the "despair" of losing it all in the pits make you feel 10X worse and even more like a degenerate than the despair of losing at poker? shouldn't that feeling be enough of a deterrent to stop you from doing it again?
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Old 11-01-2018, 07:14 PM   #15
hyperknit
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Re: How to avoid chasing poker losses in the pits?

Imo the problem is that u define success as winning money, and failure as losing money.
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Old 11-01-2018, 10:52 PM   #16
+EVillain
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Re: How to avoid chasing poker losses in the pits?

the way i look at it, in the end it really boils down to this: whatever it takes, no matter what mental gymnastics you have to do between your ears find a way to walk away. IMO the best way to do this is: stop thinking, let your mind go blank and move your body out of the casino/away from the computer.

being a great poker player/gambler is not just about winning, but stopping the bleeding when you are loosing. Simple not easy, if it were easy everyone could do it.

i mean the bottom line in poker is that we all want to win long term, mitigating loses is a big part of that. it is so hard to build a bankroll, and so easy to torch a bankroll. an online grinder could work for a month, then blast it all away in an hour taking a shot at higher stakes...you have to protect your roll from yourself lol

in my experience people who love poker are fairly intelligent, but they also have a lot of gamble in them and that impulsive part of their mind can takeover when they lose. you said in your post that 'all logic goes out the window' when you bust out, i would challenge you to fight that part of yourself and reason your way out

having a stop loss of 2 max buy in, or four min buy ins (40bb) is a model that i like a lot, but whatever is sustainable based on your bankroll.

youll figure it out, +EVillain

Last edited by +EVillain; 11-01-2018 at 11:07 PM.
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Old 11-07-2018, 12:53 AM   #17
wowsooooted
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Re: How to avoid chasing poker losses in the pits?

stop thinking short term, poker is a long term game
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Old 11-07-2018, 11:45 AM   #18
FishMobJP
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Re: How to avoid chasing poker losses in the pits?

You know that you do this which shows good self awareness.

If you know you do it and you are aware then you can take actions and put plans in place to prevent the problem from happening.

This is a huge advantage over doing it and not wanting to stop.

Try one or both of these two options:

1. Is there another way out of the casino that isn't past the pit games? That way you can avoid the trigger of seeing the temptation.

2. Learn to associate the pit games with pain. Really think about how much hurt you feel when you lose the money and remind yourself of this when you are about to leave the poker room.

I agree with the mindfulness guys. The practice of meditation and mindfulness helps to increase awareness and emotional management.

Good luck bro
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