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Old 09-03-2017, 02:13 AM   #1
esspoker
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Getting over concern for money

I've been trying for the last 5 years maybe to get over any concern for money, as that's supposed to make you a better poker player (and probably better business person as well). As Little Finger said in GOT, "money is just numbers on a page. As soon as you realize that, it gets easy." (or something like that).

I've been broke (dirt broke) and unable to pay rent. I've also had money. I think I'm finally getting to see the light. It seems that having self confidence is the key. Namely, in the ability to make money. Then you lose your attachment to the money itself.

For instance if you're a mediocre poker player trying to go pro you probably feel insecure deep down, or if you're a bad stockbroker trying to make it in the field you feel insecure... but once you find something you can make money at, and feel like you'll be successful, then money loses it's hypnotic effect and the career becomes more valuable.

On a personal note, I just dropped a relatively large amount at a poker game. And I don't feel bad. I played good poker, up until one hand I think I misplayed, but mostly I felt I was one of the best players at the table and one of the most seasoned. Even though I don't have a roll, I might make another stab at it... which is an exhilarating feeling. I know my friends and family won't think so... but I'm more ambitious than any of them, and I think that to be wealthy you have to not care about money. You have to get to an objectivity about it. And wealth isn't just about money. Wealth is a state of mind, where you feel effective and powerful (not powerless) to do the things you want to do, and to be able to help those who might be in need. To be a provider and not a burden.

Again getting personal: usually when I lose a lot at a game, I feel a sinking, bad feeling. Today I didn't get that. It might be the first time. Another unusual thing is that it doesn't matter how much I lose, but I usually feel bad after a loss, whether it is 20 dollars or 500 dollars. I wonder if that is a common experience. With the 500 though, I sometimes think about it longer than the 20 dollar loss, and I think about it in terms of having more value (i.e. I could have bought more stuff, etc).

I want to think about the value of money though. Money is, as some guru once said, the smallest possible representation of value. It has almost zero value in itself (just paper). But it represents something of value. What is that thing? Most people are slaves to this green piece of paper, which is mostly an abstraction in bank accounts now anyway. That's understandable, since we need it to survive. But do we?

Money isn't what provides for us. We provide for money. We create money, not the other way around... I think this is the essence of understanding how to attain real wealth (10 million and up in net worth). To make boatloads of money, you have to be disassociated emotionally from money. And you have to create value, create something which money can attach itself to.

What does creating value mean at the poker table, where the object is simply to take money? Well that's an interesting question, but I think the reason most people play poker is not just for money, it's for the love of the complexity of the game. A Phil Ivey loves the game. Loves the competition. And I bet he plays it to be the best, not just for cash. And in innovating, coming up with new ways to beat people, in understanding game theory, there is inherent value, far greater than in the money itself.
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Old 09-03-2017, 11:26 AM   #2
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Re: Getting over concern for money

For me not caring about money is not a realistic goal(or something I even want) so I get around this with absolute stringent bankroll management.
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Old 09-03-2017, 06:25 PM   #3
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Re: Getting over concern for money

I think bankroll management is good (wish I could do it) but it seems like a lot of top pros threw that out the window when they were starting out. It's hard starting out with no money trying to "manage" it.
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Old 09-04-2017, 10:05 PM   #4
commas,are,funny
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Re: Getting over concern for money

Find a place in the world that doesn't require money. Friends, hobbies, interests, accomplishments... then winning or losing some tolerable amount won't be that central to you.
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:48 PM   #5
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Re: Getting over concern for money

Quote:
Originally Posted by commas,are,funny View Post
Find a place in the world that doesn't require money. Friends, hobbies, interests, accomplishments... then winning or losing some tolerable amount won't be that central to you.
Great advice
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Old 09-07-2017, 04:59 PM   #6
mark "twang"
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Re: Getting over concern for money

Quote:
Originally Posted by esspoker View Post
I've been trying for the last 5 years maybe to get over any concern for money, as that's supposed to make you a better poker player (and probably better business person as well). As Little Finger said in GOT, "money is just numbers on a page. As soon as you realize that, it gets easy." (or something like that).

I've been broke (dirt broke) and unable to pay rent. I've also had money. I think I'm finally getting to see the light. It seems that having self confidence is the key. Namely, in the ability to make money. Then you lose your attachment to the money itself.

For instance if you're a mediocre poker player trying to go pro you probably feel insecure deep down, or if you're a bad stockbroker trying to make it in the field you feel insecure... but once you find something you can make money at, and feel like you'll be successful, then money loses it's hypnotic effect and the career becomes more valuable.

On a personal note, I just dropped a relatively large amount at a poker game. And I don't feel bad. I played good poker, up until one hand I think I misplayed, but mostly I felt I was one of the best players at the table and one of the most seasoned. Even though I don't have a roll, I might make another stab at it... which is an exhilarating feeling. I know my friends and family won't think so... but I'm more ambitious than any of them, and I think that to be wealthy you have to not care about money. You have to get to an objectivity about it. And wealth isn't just about money. Wealth is a state of mind, where you feel effective and powerful (not powerless) to do the things you want to do, and to be able to help those who might be in need. To be a provider and not a burden.

Again getting personal: usually when I lose a lot at a game, I feel a sinking, bad feeling. Today I didn't get that. It might be the first time. Another unusual thing is that it doesn't matter how much I lose, but I usually feel bad after a loss, whether it is 20 dollars or 500 dollars. I wonder if that is a common experience. With the 500 though, I sometimes think about it longer than the 20 dollar loss, and I think about it in terms of having more value (i.e. I could have bought more stuff, etc).

I want to think about the value of money though. Money is, as some guru once said, the smallest possible representation of value. It has almost zero value in itself (just paper). But it represents something of value. What is that thing? Most people are slaves to this green piece of paper, which is mostly an abstraction in bank accounts now anyway. That's understandable, since we need it to survive. But do we?

Money isn't what provides for us. We provide for money. We create money, not the other way around... I think this is the essence of understanding how to attain real wealth (10 million and up in net worth). To make boatloads of money, you have to be disassociated emotionally from money. And you have to create value, create something which money can attach itself to.

What does creating value mean at the poker table, where the object is simply to take money? Well that's an interesting question, but I think the reason most people play poker is not just for money, it's for the love of the complexity of the game. A Phil Ivey loves the game. Loves the competition. And I bet he plays it to be the best, not just for cash. And in innovating, coming up with new ways to beat people, in understanding game theory, there is inherent value, far greater than in the money itself.
I think its a lot more likely that dude plays poker because he is a degen. Ironically, Phil being a degen is what made him rich. He was playing poker since he was 18 before there was any thought of "the poker boom" that ended up turning those guys into celebs.

The takeaway point I am trying to make is that getting rich requires a lot of risk and "dumb luck".

If you want to be a millionaire then you should be chasing risk the way the cops chased OJ.

Most of the people who got rich would be low-class nobodies if they didn't make it.

Do you want to risk being someone who pumps gas at age 45 because you took all-or-nothing path of a long-shot chance of becoming a multi-millionaire?

If so, I support that. Hell, I even admire it. But nonchalantly acting like money doesn't matter is a super dumb mindset to have and is just cognitive dissonance to make yourself feel better when you lose it.

On a social level, you won't get a trophy for trying. Winning will be the only thing that others care about.
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Old 09-08-2017, 01:21 PM   #7
ARCANGEL0
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Re: Getting over concern for money

''Even though I don't have a roll, I might make another stab at it... which is an exhilarating feeling. I know my friends and family won't think so... but I'm more ambitious than any of them, and I think that to be wealthy you have to not care about money.'' > No offense, but this is degen talk.

Careful OP. There are no shortcuts to success and poker is not the exception.
Rich people do care a lot about money.

Is the poor people that say that ''money is not important'' or '' money can't buy happiness''

Money IS super important and money CAN buy happiness. If you are smart about what you buy!


glgl
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Old 09-11-2017, 12:46 AM   #8
esspoker
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Re: Getting over concern for money

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARCANGEL0 View Post
''Even though I don't have a roll, I might make another stab at it... which is an exhilarating feeling. I know my friends and family won't think so... but I'm more ambitious than any of them, and I think that to be wealthy you have to not care about money.'' > No offense, but this is degen talk.

Careful OP. There are no shortcuts to success and poker is not the exception.
Rich people do care a lot about money.

Is the poor people that say that ''money is not important'' or '' money can't buy happiness''

Money IS super important and money CAN buy happiness. If you are smart about what you buy!




glgl
Thank you. I don't know if I'm degen or not. I quit poker for about 5 months without giving it a thought. Then I got an urge. I think I'm addicted to adrenaline, and a casino is the closest thing to an adrenaline rush I'm going to find. I also want to drive my car as fast as I can, but I don't want to go to jail. I guess I could go to a race track, or take up skydiving.
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Old 09-11-2017, 12:50 AM   #9
esspoker
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Re: Getting over concern for money

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark "twang" View Post
I think its a lot more likely that dude plays poker because he is a degen. Ironically, Phil being a degen is what made him rich. He was playing poker since he was 18 before there was any thought of "the poker boom" that ended up turning those guys into celebs.

The takeaway point I am trying to make is that getting rich requires a lot of risk and "dumb luck".

If you want to be a millionaire then you should be chasing risk the way the cops chased OJ.

Most of the people who got rich would be low-class nobodies if they didn't make it.

Do you want to risk being someone who pumps gas at age 45 because you took all-or-nothing path of a long-shot chance of becoming a multi-millionaire?

If so, I support that. Hell, I even admire it. But nonchalantly acting like money doesn't matter is a super dumb mindset to have and is just cognitive dissonance to make yourself feel better when you lose it.

On a social level, you won't get a trophy for trying. Winning will be the only thing that others care about.

Most days I don't care what people think. But one day I'm sure I will. I'm a little eccentric anyway. I read obsure books. I have very little social life... I had a lot of sex with women in my 20s and I'm OK with that, I don't need a standard girlfriend/wife/kids life. I just want security and to be left alone to do my thing. Why O why someone who is above average intelligence has such a hard time finding a fulfilling career I don't know. I think being of average intelligence is a huge advantage. Being an outsider is never good. '

After 33 years I know a few things:

1. I want total freedom in my life
2. I want to be financially self sufficient
3. I would ideally be able to work from anywhere.
4. My work would be stimulating intellectually
5. My work somehow adds value to the world
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Old 09-12-2017, 11:28 AM   #10
ARCANGEL0
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Re: Getting over concern for money

5. My work somehow adds value to the world

I wanna touch on this point. Many poker player or gamblers think that what they do adds no value to the world. But imo the simple fact that you are not out there trying to rob people adds value to the world. So get over it guys you add value!

glgl
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Old 09-12-2017, 02:11 PM   #11
mark "twang"
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Re: Getting over concern for money

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARCANGEL0 View Post
5. My work somehow adds value to the world

I wanna touch on this point. Many poker player or gamblers think that what they do adds no value to the world. But imo the simple fact that you are not out there trying to rob people adds value to the world. So get over it guys you add value!

glgl
Except when we bluff. Then we are, in fact, robbing people.
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Old 09-13-2017, 04:48 PM   #12
Kurn, son of Mogh
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Re: Getting over concern for money

Quote:
Originally Posted by esspoker View Post
I think bankroll management is good (wish I could do it) but it seems like a lot of top pros threw that out the window when they were starting out. It's hard starting out with no money trying to "manage" it.
Just remember - "money's only something you need in case you don't die tomorrow."
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Old 09-13-2017, 06:40 PM   #13
PSG
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Re: Getting over concern for money

When you concern for money that is what we called 'scared money', successful people success because they know the 'value of money' even shakespeare wrote poem about it ' the value of money
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Old 09-13-2017, 09:21 PM   #14
esspoker
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Re: Getting over concern for money

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurn, son of Mogh View Post
Just remember - "money's only something you need in case you don't die tomorrow."
That quote is money. $$
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Old 09-14-2017, 04:59 PM   #15
mark "twang"
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Re: Getting over concern for money

So you plan on dying today?
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Old 09-15-2017, 11:57 AM   #16
Kurn, son of Mogh
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Re: Getting over concern for money

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Originally Posted by mark "twang" View Post
So you plan on dying today?
"Live every day as if it's your last."
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Old 09-15-2017, 02:53 PM   #17
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Re: Getting over concern for money

Live like you are dying today, make plans like you are gonna live forever. = Balance.
Hope for the best, expect the worst.

glgl
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Old 09-15-2017, 03:30 PM   #18
mark "twang"
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Re: Getting over concern for money

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurn, son of Mogh View Post
"Live every day as if it's your last."
Good idea. I'll think I'll rob a bank now.







Oh sh*t. 25 years behind bars is a long time. F*ck my life.
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Old 09-15-2017, 07:07 PM   #19
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Re: Getting over concern for money

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Originally Posted by mark "twang" View Post
Good idea. I'll think I'll rob a bank now.







Oh sh*t. 25 years behind bars is a long time. F*ck my life.
Dont rob banks, rob someone with much cash , loan sharks etc
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Old 09-16-2017, 12:32 PM   #20
mark "twang"
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Re: Getting over concern for money

^ Lol.

Good advice pop.
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