You need to read everything I wrote about tilt in the paper above, specifically the four paragraphs after the one you quoted, and you'll see the explanation for tilt and that it's a processing problem.

You also, for a more complete explanation, should read the chapter "A Mathematical Model of “Tilt” — Cause and Cure" in my book Real Poker Psychology -- Expanded Edition.

https://www.amazon.com/Real-Poker-Ps...1439856&sr=1-5

Mason

I did read everything you wrote, and I said in my comment that the paper was reasonable and seemed to capture something about what tilt is like for many players. I still stand by my critique of that paragraph. Reading your book probably won't change that.

I’m sorry, but you did not address my reasons for why I don’t think fight or flight is a valid explanation for tilt, and those reasons are right there for you to read.

Again, you should read my book, especially since you’re some sort of coach.

Mason

Hey Mason

You're right that as a coach and also someone doing an MA in Psychology, books like yours are of interest to me. I think our back and forth continues because we are both invested in the truth of the matter.

I'd like to take your word for it, something in your writing clearly outlines what makes a neurochemical model of tilt worthy of more or less total dismissal. I can take your word for it, if you can take my word for it that I have read your paper already, and skimmed it again this morning to try to find what you are referring to, and been unable. I see convincing alternate hypotheses, but no direct critique of fight or flight except the paragraph I initially called attention to.

Perhaps you can remind me, in your own words, or quoting from the paper, what you believe are the strongest reasons for dismissing "fight or flight" outright.

From the paper in my OP (the next five paragraphs from the one you quoted):

So what causes tilt. Many so called poker psychologists, most of whom my opinion towards is negative, claim that tilt has something to do with the “fight of flight” mechanism that we all have. But if this was true, fights would be common in the poker rooms, and they only rarely happen, and occasionally we would see someone grab their chips and run out of the poker room, and I’ve never seen this.

In 2013, at the Fifteenth Conference on Gambling and Risk Taking, I gave a paper titled “A Mathematical Model of Tilt — Cause and Cure” which also appears in my book Real Poker Psychology. In this paper, using simple mathematical modeling based on discontinuous functions, I show that tilt is nothing more than a processing problem that is closely related to humor.

For instance, when Groucho Marx (as Captain Spaulding) said, “I shot an elephant in my pajamas, how he got in my pajamas I don’t know,” our brain is able to figure out that the elephant wasn’t really in Groucho’s pajamas, and this process of figuring out the mathematical discontinuity that occurs here produces humor and we laugh.

But what if our brain can’t figure something like this out? And using a poker example, what if our aces keep getting beat and our brain can’t understand why that happens since aces are clearly the best hand in hold ’em. Then it’s my contention that our thinking process gets stuck and our brain in a sense gets locked up trying to solve a problem that it has no answer to. Thus we lose the ability to not only think but to think rationally, and tilt occurs.

So what’s the solution? Well, the solution is easy to describe but for many players difficult to do. And all it encompasses is to improve your understanding of the game of poker so that in the future your brain is able to solve problems that are presented to you at the poker table which you currently can’t solve. This includes a better understanding of strategy, how your opponents behave, and the amount of short-term luck, both good and bad, that is present in a poker game and which statisticians like myself measure by the relationship between the mean, which would be the win (or loss) rate, relative to the standard deviation that is present in all forms of poker (and all forms of gambling).

And so if Ungar, pretty much the clear GOAT tournament player, can be laying in his hotel room coked up and resultingly blinded off at a final table ... it's pretty clear that it is not expertise or knowledge of the game that is the issue. If the GOAT can go to this irrational extreme and to this level of negative EV behavior, how much more can more mortal players do milder versions of the same thing, that is, allowing personal demons and personality features to OVERRULE their skill?? Answer: by the millions of instances. Tilt correlates with, AND is caused by, lack of discipline, self-control, self-knowledge ... not skill in the game.

Agreed. It is an original and interesting idea, the case is just overstated. In my opinion, a lot of people who study brain and behavior tend to end up reductive in emulating the clean/elegant hypothesis-->evidence-->"solved" model of other sciences. The reality is that two different people can exhibit the same behavior for different reasons. I vaguely recall Jason Koon articulating his journey to understand his reasons for Tilting as related to childhood trauma. Jason is an exceptional player, and like Ungar he understood the game extremely well even when he was breaking keyboards and punching holes in the wall.

The conception of tilt in the article is valuable, it's just that multiple models can be valuable simultaneously. There is no need for some models to be dismissed with Strawmen arguments in order for other models to enrich our understanding.

Sorry OP, that is just my honest opinion. Thanks for helping create a discussion.

Well that's a great point about multiple models being both valuable and explanatory. And the fact that a strategy writer clings to the strategy model and a psychologist to the psychology model is absolutely classic, I must admit. I'll go to my grave with the behavioral model is better, more efficacious, more explanatory in the vast amount of cases, and that a person approaching the game with a highly disciplined, regimented mindset will be mostly blind to the behavioral pitfalls of many.

Really enjoyed reading this. It's tough to know when to leave a game and have the discipline and humility to do so. When you play everyday, it's a bit easier than a weekend warrior who didn't work all week to fold all night.

I'm reading you latest "Small stakes" book now and enjoying a new perspective on limp fest games.