Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Me Up
People definitely overemphasize race. For example, read Jonathan Little's 1st cash game book, where he devoted an entire section to this topic. It's packed w/ all sorts of dubious nonsense about what assumptions you should make based on race. For example, I play amongst a very nitty player population that is mostly Asian. Yet the stereotype is that Asians are "crazy gamblers". Whatever. To quote Wolfgang Paulie, it's not even wrong.
Like you say, frequencies/showdowns are king in categorizing players. However, as far as physical indicators that might help me out immediately, I usually look at buy in amount, how they stack/handle chips, age, how they're dressed, how they hold themselves, how hard they seem to be paying attention, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Me Up
People definitely overemphasize race. For example, read Jonathan Little's 1st cash game book, where he devoted an entire section to this topic. It's packed w/ all sorts of dubious nonsense about what assumptions you should make based on race. For example, I play amongst a very nitty player population that is mostly Asian. Yet the stereotype is that Asians are "crazy gamblers". Whatever. To quote Wolfgang Paulie, it's not even wrong.
Like you say, frequencies/showdowns are king in categorizing players. However, as far as physical indicators that might help me out immediately, I usually look at buy in amount, how they stack/handle chips, age, how they're dressed, how they hold themselves, how hard they seem to be paying attention, etc.
I don't disagree with your main point but Little actually says Asians tend to be either wild or tight.
As to the main question of the thread, I don't think for most players there is any prejudice involved in making guesses about how people play. It's stereotyping certainly. And I do use all kinds of stereotypes to help me form a baseline when I have no actual information to go on.
One should take a complete inventory of a person's appearance and behavior, however, not just make conclusions like "woman = passive" or "black guy = loose".
Some stereotypes are obviously useful. If you treated OMCs like 25 year olds you would get murdered long term. OP's experience is aberrational. Of course various individuals differ greatly in their play from how their stereotypes depict them, which is why watching how people actually play is more important than just lazily using stereotypes.
But there are many times where I simply have no hand history with the individual involved. Rather than treat that person as a blank slate, I make an educated guess about his or her tendencies based on how other similar looking or acting people have played.
Some stereotypes I've found useful
Conservatively dressed - relatively tight or someone trying to appear tight
Shabbily dressed - gambler
Well groomed - tight
Unkempt appearance - gambler
Stacks chips neatly and correctly - tight
Stacks chips oddly or messily - loose, probably aggressive
Has a backpack - grinder
Wears sunglasses in low stakes games - inexperienced with hiding tells, probably bad
Young - relatively aggressive
Old - very tight
Middle aged - usually loose passive
Has non-American accent - relatively loose
Heavy smoker - relatively loose sometimes aggressive
Drinking - relatively loose
Heavily drinking - loose and aggressive
Talking a lot - loose or trying to appear loose
Silent - tight or trying to appear tight
Buys in for minimum - usually bad, could be aggressive short stacker or LP trying to hit a HH
Buys in for maximum - relatively good OR relatively wealthy gambler, can often figure out which by other appearance and behavior clues
Wears eyeglasses - probably intelligent, likely relatively good
I also use racial stereotyping but I'll avoid posting these as I don't want to offend anybody.
The correct way to implement stereotypes is by taking everything in, not just one thing like race, for instance "older black guy, conservatively dressed, chips stacked neatly and correctly, has not said a word, bought in max 200BB" is very different than "young black guy, loose fitting casual clothes, drinking, talking to his neighbors, chips messily stacked, bought in 100BB"
With no additional information I'm guessing the first guy is a nit and the second guy either LAG or SLAG.