I'm just going to type exactly how I feel and what my honest situation is and hope I don't come off as a complete douche in the process...

I'm in my last year of school and am applying for university next year. I'm a hard working guy and have been successful at almost everything I've properly applied myself to, with the exception of rugby. I'm sociable, go to one of the best schools in my country, have top grades and am applying for the best university in my country next year. I feel like I've got a decent shot at getting in and would consider myself 'clever'. Barring any **** ups, even if I get into my third choice uni (in England you have 5 choices when you apply), in ten years time I will be in financial services/the law earning 300k+ a year.

But that's not really what I want. I've been playing poker on and off for three years and love the game. I always thought I was a good player (lol don't we all), but I recently bought HEM and looking through my past 40k hands it's obvious I'm not. I can't beat microstakes at the moment.

That's fine. Better to know your rubbish than to think your good when your not. I always thought I was good because I was up alot of money, but it turns out I'm only up money from running good when going on monkey-tilt-flipping-in-higher-stakes-than-you-belong-mode.

I'm not great at poker but I feel like I can be as good as anyone. If I decide to take the game seriously I can learn, post more, read less BBV, concentrate more on videos, critically analyse my sessions using HEM. I've succeeded when I've tried, and poker is something which I would love to try.

The problem comes from the fact that I don't have the time to do work properly and work at poker, and I'd like to atleast try to play poker professionally at some point in my near future (university? gap year? after uni?). I love the idea of not doing the 9-5 grind, the poker lifestyle, the time to think about poker on a whole new level and the financial rewards. I'm not obsessed by money, and I'd rather do something I enjoy (like poker) than do something which I won't but will get better rewarded (law/financial services).

But then poker isn't know as the "grind" for nothing. Maybe it won't be as fulfilling as I imagine it would be. Maybe it would turn me into a nervous, antisocial wreck.

My basic question is (and I know it's a douchey thing to say but this is something I can't talk to friends and family about so I guess I have to take you into my confidence and hope you don't judge me) poker for me? Is my conception of being a poker-pro just horribly naive? Have I been given too much of a head-start in life to apply myself to poker when I could other things that perhaps not everybody could do?

I love poker but I'm at the point where I either want to do it properly or not at all. As a recreational player I'm a loser. If I took it more seriously I think I could make a lot of money, but how severe is the opportunity cost?


Anyway, thanks for reading and I'd appreciate any advice. Please be as critical as you like if you want to make a constructive point.

Let me be the first to chime in on this and say that no your not a douche. I havent been a member here long so take my words as you will. I too am a student and have experienced similar thoughts as yourself and I too have at times been completely enamored by the concept of playing full time and while having always having spun a consistant profit, I have had to except that I will never reach the lofty hights of my expectations, But thats me.

My advice to you is to take the time find out for yourself if you really believe it's possible and is for you. Possibley only a short time at first would do you. For me poker will always be a hobby but I am grateful to have it.

I've been playing 15yrs, i'm in my 30s, went to college, and have had a host of jobs. Currently, I'm a grinder, been grinding and earning a living most of this year from poker.

I assume you are around 18yrs old, give or take a year. I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all elder, but at that time in your life, you have a distorted view of 'time'.

You feel this pressure to drop everything and do poker NOW! But why? Take a couple of years and go to college. College is an INCREDIBLE once in a lifetime experience. You will make friends for life, you will learn a lot, and you can still do poker.

There is a popular joke here in the States, not sure if you have this joke where ever you are.

Two bulls are sitting on top of a hill looking down at a herd of cows.

The young bull turns to the older bull and says, "I've got an idea!"

The old bull says, "What"

The young bull says, "Lets run down there, screw a cow, and then run back up here!"

The old bull says, "I have a better idea. Lets walk down there and screw them all."

You seem like that young bull to me, itching to run to poker...

There is absolutely no reason why you can't go to college and play poker part time, learn the game, THEN decide if it is for you. And at the same time, you can have the once and a lifetime experience of college.

Plus, i've found that college has made me smarter which helps my game. You can take statistics and other math courses to give you a edge. You can expand your mind at college (not saying you can't do this out of college)

You are trying desparately to turn this into a BINARY problem, that is, you are trying to force this into an Either/ Or Solution Space and you don't have to.

You can have your cake and eat it to.

You can go to college AND play poker. Don't let the romanticism of "Well, if I drop college than I can 'focus' on poker" blind you.

Worst case scenario, you graduate college have prospects for a great job, and play poker on the side, all at the age of 23.

Now, if you were absolutely crushing the game and pulling down $20K a month, that is a different story. But if you can't beat the micro-stakes, the absolute last thing in the world you should even contemplete is dropping everything so you can 'focus' on poker.

The saying, "It takes a minute to learn but a lifetime to master" is soooo true.

There are so many young people just like yourself. This is the collateral damage that the Poker Boom has caused. Thousands and thousands of young people no longer want to work; they want to play poker, become rich and famous.

You have the opportunity to lead a normal and successful life. It would be an UTTER SHAME if you dropped that for cards.

You will do what you will do, but from this nearly 40 guy, my suggestion is this: forget poker. If you never play another hand, you'd be better off. Focus on your career. Find a girl. Be happy.

The companies behind poker have created one of the most successful illusions of all time: that you can become rich and famous.

The truth: not bloody likely.

$300K a year being a PRODUCTIVE member of society is the way to go.

Good luck to you.

Good Post. I am a lawyer and I am 40. I only recently discovered poker and I love it. All of the things that make me successful in the eyes of society mean very little to me. Im glad for the people I have helped, but to tell you the truth if I was good enough at poker Id quit tommorow and play.

It is very hard to have a career of this nature and do both seriously. During law school it wouldnt have even been possible, I would have flunked out.

Heres the thing though, an education no one can ever take from you, its a safety net. What you learn both academically and socially will help you with whatever you choose to do later. For this reason, you need to finish school, then decide. I definitely do not think you should spend your life doing something you dont want to do just to please others. Many, many people go through life trying desparately to fullfill the expectations of others, they live a life full of unexamined priorities.

If you want to play poker, go ahead, but finish school first.

A 40k sample shouldn't effect your confidence to whether or not you are solid at poker. You also said you are extremely smart, successful and can do anything you put you're mind too. A lot of poker isn't learned from reading and studying, but from actually playing....so don't trip about you're results. To get back to the subject, I'm a huge advocate of pursuing things you are passionate about and living out your dreams. At the same time, leave yourself outs. I wouldn't make any irrational decisions without atleast going to school. You seem like you have the future ahead of you and many opportunities many young adults don't receive. Sit back and look at what you have infront of you. College is the PERFECT time to go to school and grind on the side. Trust me, over the next few years you'll learn more about yourself, life, as well as poker than you ever have. From there you can really decide what you want to do with your life. A poker career isn't an easy career either. So my advice would be to go to school and grind on the side, but we all take different paths in life. Good Luck.

These posts tilt me.

Look, either OP is serious, which makes him a spoiled naive little brat, and nothing you can say will affect him.

Or he is levelling.

Either way, you are wasting your time.

I don't understand your hate in this thread and the other. Either post something constructive, or don't at all. By posting your just wasting your time and everyone else's.

And ''spoiled naive little brat'' is quite lol considering you know nothing about me. I'm just as susceptible to be naive as any other teenager, but you know nothing about the sacrifices my family have made to get me the education I got (which is probably why I work so hard too).

Basically, if you want to be a douche and flame someone then head off to BBV. Especially as you know nothing about me and I'm trying to reach out to people and solicit serious advice.

Thankfully not everyone has reacted like you, and I've taken alot and really appreciate the comments so far.

Thanks guys

But I already explained it - I think your are making this up, since there really is no crossroads here. Going to uni is great fun and gives you great opportunities for your career, so unless you are already a successful TV star or some such, no one would even consider passing up on this. Especially not for poker which you could learn and improve in your spare time. You are making this up.

Terribly hard sacrifices that must have been considering that you told us your dad works for a law firm and makes $$$. Again - you are making this up.

That is true. I only know about you what I took from this thread. Basically, that you are making this up.

Anyway, why is this suddenly a new thread? Odd.

BTW I work with teenagers, and I am one of the few people among my colleagues who are convinced that 18-y-o are not idiots. Never met anyone naive enough to make such statements as you did. Because they don't exist. Because you are making this up.

If you look at the timing of the thread, I created this one before I did the other.

I said my dad works at a law firm, I never said he was a lawyer.

Anyway If you think I'm making this up then that's your opinion and I'm not going to bother trying to argue with such a bitter, bigoted man.

Neither did I. But you did say that he made a lot of money. I think we are done here, but it is really not nice to have all those people give you replies when you are just pulling their legs.

No, I didn't.

Why don't you scourge through the other thread now and try to find where I said that. Good luck.

Anyway Bart I've been looking through your post history to try to find out where you're coming from because you've quite taken me aback after all the serious replies.

The fact that you started a thread similar to mine and got completely flamed for it makes sense I guess. You probably thought it was only fair I got my share.

It also shows what I suspected, that you really are just a bitter man trying to make life harder for others because you failed yourself.

As you said, we're done here. If you feel compelled to reply shoot me a PM, I'll be waiting with bated breath.

Go to university...
More reasons:
1. If you decide to be a poker player, the discipline you need to learn to be successful at university makes it more likely you will become a successful player.
2. If you decide to be a poker player, the knowledge you gain makes it more likely you will become a successful player.
Statistics was invented by gamblers after all.
3. Going to university gives you a safe financial footing from which to get better.
4. Going to university lets you have a shot at other jobs that let you gamble for larger pay packets(eg banking).
So going to university improves your chances at success without shutting the door on other opportunities.

What happens if you go the no-university poker route???
What happens if you don't succeed?
Can you still go to a top university(I have no idea on how the UK system works)??
Do you hurt your chances with post university job opportunities??

---
Going to university is both higher EV and lower Variance...
In poker terms, it's like getting a free card to draw to your flush.

With good grades you could re-apply a few years later, but are unlikely to get into the very top top unis (Harvard equivalents). Still, if grades are good enough theres no reason other universitys wouldn't accept you.

I've pretty much decided I'm going to go to university to be honest. I've got loads of good advice on the forum, and hopefully I'll have more time at uni to play and learn poker than I do at school!

Just out of interest what uni are you going to?

Not going to any, but my first choice is Cambridge. Hopefully they'll take me!

Not funny anymore.

You said this to prove that doing humanities at uni can land you a very well paid job (in your own case you were expecting 300k+). This implies that your dad does not work as a janitor or guard at that law firm but makes a decent income. Hence - no sacrifices worth talking about paying for your education.

And WOW am I curious which of my many posts you consider to be similar to your bull****.

But don't worry, I do realise that I have lost here. You are trolling, and you got me to post several times. So even though I know that you are trolling, I still fail for being unable to just ignore you.

Rek is better than me.

FastMotion don't listen to Bart, he's a losing player that gave up his (social) life for poker and lost a good amount of money. He's probably bitter about it, and even before that he was known as a stupid troll in the forums, posting threads like 'there is no skill in cash games, it's all luck' etc.

Anyway, I posted a thread that was kinda similar to yours a while ago in Psychology, where I wasn't doing well in university because I wasn't interested, and wanted to take poker up for a living. I didn't end up doing it, but I have reached the stakes I wanted to play to be able to support myself professionally (MSNL).

After being on that side of the argument, and having experienced a few months of solid poker grind, I'd tell you not to do it. I expect you not to really listen to this because people said the same thing to me, and I didn't listen. I think your concept of being a poker pro is actually quite naive, because there are very few people who genuinely like poker enough to keep playing and improving for 10+ years. If you were one of these people, you probably would know by now because you'd have been obsessed with getting better from the beginning, and wouldn't just be saying that you'd like to try get good after a while of playing. This is kinda hard to explain, I might make another post on it. Basically I'm saying that you will get sick of it, and the thought of grinding will often make you feel bad, eventually. There's a chance this won't happen, but I think the odds are against you.

That isn't to say, though, that you should just quit poker. I realised I wasn't one of the people who was naturally fascinated by poker enough to stick with it for life, but I still enjoy playing like 10 hours a week (though sometimes I hate it!) and it's definitely helping me out financially. There's no reason that you can't be doing that. To be honest (and I've seen oldjude, a very good msnl/hsnl player post this), I think that most of what it takes to be a very good player these days is either a sick work ethic or a sick love for the game. Obviously you need to be somewhat smart, but I think the dedication is more important.

The other thing I was gonna say, is that to live a good life playing poker professionally you need to be very balanced. Poker players tend to sit in a room all day and play, and to have a good social life and be healthy, you need to make efforts to go out everyday and meet new people, etc. E.g BartJ had a job and still managed to throw his social life away for poker. Imagine if he didn't have people to see every day at work? What kinda life would that be? Alot of young kids get sucked into the idea that money is all there is (cliche I know) and therefore poker is perfect because they can earn alot. They just don't see the negative effects it could have on their life.

It kinda sounds like I'm saying all poker players are losers, which is not true. One good thing is that with poker, travelling is easier. That's probably likely to give you a good experience, but not good friends you can chill with on a regular basis.

I could go on writing but it's kinda becoming a rant. Cliffnotes are that while poker is an awesome game, I think it will eventually become monotonous to most people who try taking it up for a living, and also you never truly know if you have what it takes to be good at it (you may be smart enough, but not have the interest or the emotional control). Play it on the side and try to get good enough to earn decent money, it doesn't take that much time.

I'm not reading through all that crap, but

There's no particular reason you have to go into law or finance once you graduate, especially if money isn't everything to you. There's no point missing out on the fun of your 20s if you're earning £80k in your first year after graduation but don't have any time to spend it.

I'm kinda in your shoes at the moment and I'm 7 years older than you. My advice would be not to commit yourself to anything. If you can get into cambridge, go to cambridge, and try to pay some of your living costs through poker. If that doesn't pan out, get a bar job or whatever. Then redeposit and have another go. It's not the end of the world if you can't make it as a professional poker player; very few can, while most believe they're good enough. In any case, while it's nice to be your own boss, the rest isn't all it's cracked up to be. I believe I would have been in a 1000x better spot than I find myself in now if I'd just graduated one of my two aborted attempts at a degree and gotten a job. Poker would still have been there for me.

awesome post.

agree with you on many of the points. would like to hear more

Same situtation u were in awhile ago and was told to not go pro until making at least 10K a month