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Afraid to play AA with a big stack? Afraid to play AA with a big stack?

07-19-2022 , 03:42 PM
I've been running bad over my last dozen sessions at just under breakeven. The logical angel on my shoulder says that doesn't matter and it won't change how the cards come out this hand. The fearful devil says, "lock in a win."

Last session I lost $1500 at 2/5 in an easy game that I beat almost 80% of the time. My avg losing session in that game is about $600 and my avg winning session is about $1100. I ran out of patience during a streak of bad cards and played stupid.

This session, I've been disciplined and lucky. I'm up $1500 with a $2700 stack. I fought the urge to play stupid fit or fold hands and my stack is better for it.

After about 7 hours, I (TAG) get AA, raise to $25 UTG, and it folds around to the BB. BB is a clever TAG $3000 that has manipulated me a few times today and on previous days, we both know he is better than me, he makes it $150. I'm guessing he has 88 - JJ because with that much of a raise, he's trying to buy the little pot.

My choices are to be tricky and only call, raise to $400 which makes my hand transparent, or GII and not worry getting outplayed. In one sense, the money doesn't matter one way or the other, I play poker for the fun and challenge of always trying to get better. I measure better by tracking results on the basis of $/Hour. OTOH, I would hate myself if I gave away my whole day's work and buy in because I had to call down a set.
I listened to the devil this time and went AI. He instafolded QQ face up and made some angry comment that I played it stupid, and he's right. I made one more orbit and went home because if I'm not playing my A game, I shouldn't be there.

Now I'm angry at myself for playing like a chicken. Earlier in the day I would have played it as a call to trick another bet or two out of him. The 1 in 5 loss rate would be attributed to the poker gods.
Anyone else have end of session syndrome and / or fears of putting a big stack at risk? Any advice beside quit being stupid?
Afraid to play AA with a big stack? Quote
07-19-2022 , 06:28 PM
Clearly, you know him well, so would he think you would 3-bet him with AK, QQ+, any air? Do you think he would c-bet 100% of the time?

If you want to mess with him? Min raise him to $225 and see what he does. I assume that would be out of character for you and should confuse him. Maybe even into 4-betting.

Either play it straight up, or pull some meta-game moves on him. If you're not up to either, then cash out and go home.
Afraid to play AA with a big stack? Quote
07-20-2022 , 08:16 AM
The problem with a min raise is while it might confuse him, he's absolutely priced into set mining. If the board comes out with any card in he range I've given him, he's betting his set or his over pair and I won't be able to tell the difference. Early in the session that's a risk I confidently take. Late int he session, I go mental.
Afraid to play AA with a big stack? Quote
07-20-2022 , 12:04 PM
I actually do get it. To a lesser degree, I do the same thing. It's long been known, in a variety of endeavors, that the pleasure of a win is overshadowed by the pain of a loss.

How you get by this, at least enough to function, is through knowledge and experience. Will you lose sometimes? Yes.

Two recent hands I played illustrate this.

1) Bomb pot with T8s, top pair and a flush draw against a maniac and a calling station facing a $500 bet in a $1600 pot (yea 1/3 game). End of my day, up a few hundred, called it off figuring I was a 3:2 favorite ... and lost. Went home and ran it through Pokerstove and found I was even money to win, getting 2:1. Then counted my home bankroll and ate lunch. Felt much better.

2) Rec player, with an attitude that disliked me bet pre, flop, turn and big river. I had been stuck badly that day and by the river was still up about $200. He bet $200 and I was 90% convinced he was bluffing, but I had to leave soon. Ended up folding and he showed the bluff. Oh well, that's why they call it gambling.

My point is that you need to travel that road a few times and review the results in the comfort of home. That's where you decide if what you did was right, or wrong.
Afraid to play AA with a big stack? Quote
07-20-2022 , 03:50 PM
You didn't play the hand stupidly given he is a better player and you know it. If you will payoff your stack if he hits while he will only give you an extra $200 or so if he misses you should play as you did. I am not saying your play was correct if you were equal players but that knowing when you aren't and modifying your play to take that into account is correct strategy. BTW the correct response to him saying you played it stupid is to suggest that you feel winning with a coin flip hand is a good play not a stupid one. Let him believe you might gii AKs to see all five cards.
Afraid to play AA with a big stack? Quote
07-20-2022 , 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polarbear1955
Let him believe you might gii AKs to see all five cards.

If I was on my first buy in, I would do that in a heart beat bc he either gives up his $125 or gets in at only a 52% fave. But deep stacked or after a long day, my mindset changes to be more protective and risk averse.



Some of the comments here have made me feel less like a fool, but clearly what I did is not a strategy to maximize returns.
Afraid to play AA with a big stack? Quote
07-20-2022 , 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DEKE01
If I was on my first buy in, I would do that in a heart beat bc he either gives up his $125 or gets in at only a 52% fave. But deep stacked or after a long day, my mindset changes to be more protective and risk averse.



Some of the comments here have made me feel less like a fool, but clearly what I did is not a strategy to maximize returns.
But given the difference in skill; he can read your play much better than you read his and understands how the large stack effects you, it did maximize EV.
Afraid to play AA with a big stack? Quote
07-20-2022 , 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DEKE01
Some of the comments here have made me feel less like a fool, but clearly what I did is not a strategy to maximize returns.
As described, I'm 100% fine with your play. Do not underestimate the importance of mental state. It's one of the things I watch for when playing and the most profitable.
Afraid to play AA with a big stack? Quote
08-01-2022 , 03:01 AM
you played it fine.

I mean I suppose you know your opponent super well maybe
it wasn't optimal.

But alot of players will call your shove with QQ.
Afraid to play AA with a big stack? Quote
08-01-2022 , 10:09 PM
A few points.
  • It's good that you have a good self-evaluation, and can walk away when you know you're not playing your best. Congratulate yourself for that.
  • Any time you call with a pair in order to set-mine, you should be able to win 13X what you invested or it wasn't a good play. (The non-pairs he does this with are worse off.) He stands to win 2850 (your original 2700 plus the 150 he has already put into the pot). If you raise to 450, he has to call 300, so he isn't even looking at 10X. You could do this with a firm plan to go all in on any runout and he is still losing Sklansky dollars by calling preflop. You probably can do better than that by bet-folding some truly heinous boards.
  • You need to be confidant in your 4-bet range, and it has to include some bluffs. The range pros recommend adding some A5s and A4s to this range as bluffs, though not all of them. Perhaps the red A5s and the black A4s and throw in A2 of clubs. Of course, don't bother to do this with completely unaware players, only the ones like your friend.
Afraid to play AA with a big stack? Quote
08-01-2022 , 10:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polarbear1955
You didn't play the hand stupidly given he is a better player and you know it.
He definitely played it stupid. The fact V got pissy is also pretty fishy. I love it when someone gives me an easy decision. Simple fact is Hero cant play deepstacked. It's nothing to be ashamed of, and his best strat is probably to just never play more than 100BB effective. So if he's sitting on a 5k stack but everyone else has $500 then carry on. If 1 or 2 players get deep with him then he should consider leaving unless he's just running over them.
Afraid to play AA with a big stack? Quote
08-12-2022 , 10:14 PM
I would definetly give this more thought. Are you confident playing that deep? Or is it just against him or similar regs?
If you are not comfortable just call it a day when you reach a certain amount (like a stop loss but for winning).

But longterm you should be looking to improve deep stack play so you can be more confident with those deep stacks because you will have them from time to time.
Afraid to play AA with a big stack? Quote
08-13-2022 , 08:45 PM
Newbyz - you make some fair points. I'm not as confident of my deep stack vs deep stack play. But this particular time it was a combo of being near to the end of my day and the deep stack. Sometimes I'm a little too loose early in the day bc I know I have time to recover if I make a mistake or get a bad beat. That completely changes towards the end of the day.
Afraid to play AA with a big stack? Quote
08-15-2022 , 03:04 AM
Man you can't be scared. If your scared take a break and step away. Scared money makes no money!!
Afraid to play AA with a big stack? Quote
08-15-2022 , 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAA
Man you can't be scared. If you're scared take a break and step away. Scared money makes no money!!
Scared is one thing, stopping to consider where you're at, at each action is quite another.
Afraid to play AA with a big stack? Quote
09-02-2022 , 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DEKE01
... Sometimes I'm a little too loose early in the day bc I know I have time to recover if I make a mistake or get a bad beat. That completely changes towards the end of the day.
I used to think like this.. "I can afford mistakes on this table since it's soft"... but that's so bad and hurts your long term winnings..
Afraid to play AA with a big stack? Quote
09-02-2022 , 06:47 PM
If villain showed his fold and actually got angry that you played bad, he's likely not that great a player, and he gave you info on how to steal from him as well.
Afraid to play AA with a big stack? Quote
09-04-2022 , 05:57 AM
locking in a win is a losing mentality.
Afraid to play AA with a big stack? Quote
09-05-2022 , 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbyz
I used to think like this.. "I can afford mistakes on this table since it's soft"... but that's so bad and hurts your long term winnings..

agreed. it's a leak I'm trying to fix. I know the right answer is that how much time I have left to play should absolutely not matter. Forcing self discipline is an on going challenge.
Afraid to play AA with a big stack? Quote
09-15-2022 , 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbyz
I used to think like this.. "I can afford mistakes on this table since it's soft"... but that's so bad and hurts your long term winnings..
When a game is soft you look for tactical mistakes made by others. For example, the active guy that thinks he can read your hand only by your bets and will stack off with one pair.

Frankly, soft games use more mental energy as there is so much more to consider. So, making mistakes means you're not paying enough attention to what's going on.
Afraid to play AA with a big stack? Quote
09-16-2022 , 06:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DEKE01
I've been running bad over my last dozen sessions at just under breakeven. The logical angel on my shoulder says that doesn't matter and it won't change how the cards come out this hand. The fearful devil says, "lock in a win."

Last session I lost $1500 at 2/5 in an easy game that I beat almost 80% of the time. My avg losing session in that game is about $600 and my avg winning session is about $1100. I ran out of patience during a streak of bad cards and played stupid.

This session, I've been disciplined and lucky. I'm up $1500 with a $2700 stack. I fought the urge to play stupid fit or fold hands and my stack is better for it.

After about 7 hours, I (TAG) get AA, raise to $25 UTG, and it folds around to the BB. BB is a clever TAG $3000 that has manipulated me a few times today and on previous days, we both know he is better than me, he makes it $150. I'm guessing he has 88 - JJ because with that much of a raise, he's trying to buy the little pot.

My choices are to be tricky and only call, raise to $400 which makes my hand transparent, or GII and not worry getting outplayed. In one sense, the money doesn't matter one way or the other, I play poker for the fun and challenge of always trying to get better. I measure better by tracking results on the basis of $/Hour. OTOH, I would hate myself if I gave away my whole day's work and buy in because I had to call down a set.
I listened to the devil this time and went AI. He instafolded QQ face up and made some angry comment that I played it stupid, and he's right. I made one more orbit and went home because if I'm not playing my A game, I shouldn't be there.

Now I'm angry at myself for playing like a chicken. Earlier in the day I would have played it as a call to trick another bet or two out of him. The 1 in 5 loss rate would be attributed to the poker gods.
Anyone else have end of session syndrome and / or fears of putting a big stack at risk? Any advice beside quit being stupid?
Your hand is transparent in the event of a 4-bet only if you have 0% (semi)bluffs there.
Afraid to play AA with a big stack? Quote
09-16-2022 , 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotTonight88
Your hand is transparent in the event of a 4-bet only if you have 0% (semi)bluffs there.

That's the problem in any 1/2 or 2/5 game I've ever played in. A 4! can only be AA or KK and it is far more likely to be AA. And the reason why is that the 3!s from ~90% of the players are also heavily weighted to AA with a range of AKs and JJ+ with maybe some of the loser players adding AQs, AKo, and maybe a few others.
Afraid to play AA with a big stack? Quote

      
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