This is a troll right? I battled hundreds of hours HU vs other regs, and many others did the same. HU 2knl reg battles were pretty common. Have done even 20 hour hu sessions regularly

2knl was the only stake serious reg battling actually happened. Yes, when jangeo sat there a couple times a month there was ridiculous table camping/spawning etc. but almost everyday there was reg battling happening. This cant happen anymore at 1knl bc rake is too high. they effectively removed HU and any shorthanded reg battling. I expect the bumhunting to get worse because of this unless they lower the rake for 1knl shorthanded

I can confirm, I think I didn't monitor HU specifically, but I do have some hands.

JeremiahW, you probably still remember this one

As I said, I was not sitting watching the 10/20 games so it really is possible I missed it. But it also didn't correlate with what I had been reading here either. From the outside looking in there just appeared to be a lot of bum hunting.

But perhaps that is what a losing reg would say about the 10/20 games is they were just getting bum hunted, instead of acknowledging the real issue. And a smart winning player I would think would keep pretty quite on the topic. No reason to upset any of the fish who believe themselves to be sharks.

I can't see them not having a sit out feature, but I do see your point. And you are correct, even the most dense donator to the game will notice when the second he doesn't post the BB or goes broke, everyone also stops playing.

Maybe it could be a timed sit out feature? Like you can sitout only once per half hour or something like that?

Not sure it would work, but also trying to find a middle ground where the feature wouldn't have to be eliminated, but it could stop the predatory behavior.

Have you read this thread?


My post there, in this thread, seems like an odd one for a shill to make.

No, my stance on Global is I like the site, and think they (like all human organizations) make mistakes. But I find that bringing in flies with honey over vinegar is a better way to go, so my tone tends to seem Global friendly. Because it is. And on purpose.

Because whether you realize this or not, on the other side of this forum is a human being. One who thinks and acts like a human being. And has to take our ideas and present them to other human beings who are their bosses at Global.

If we complain and whine and don't present solutions or ask questions in reasonable ways, the odds that we will be listened to greatly decrease.

Will Global change anything because of posts in this thread? Very unlikely.

Want to make it even less likely than unlikely? Start calling names and being rude for no reason.

And to be clear, I am not saying that has happened in this thread, more just speaking to my overall tone and how I tend to operate in these threads.

Are you willing to post that here?

I can understand if you don't want to for fear of reprisal, but I personally would love to see it, because if that was actually said, that is outrageous.

As I stated, I am not claiming I know for a fact, just stating it isn't something I noticed, nor was the experience I was hearing about from the people in these threads.

I am capable of being wrong, and appear that I am here, which won't be the first time, nor will it be the last.

I am posting this anonymously but I do play 2knl on global poker, so you can try to figure it out but I will never reveal myself for obvious reasons. I will also exclude names of players that were part of any of this, but you know who you are.
Things WE need to discuss:
1.Globals inability to spot bots by themselves with insanely obviously glitches/timing tells.
When the bots started playing everyone assumed its just a wave of good regs coming to the site. It took over a month+ to realize how emboldened the bots became when they started playing 10-20 and started to play heads up. The bots would play fast and aggressive and were winning lots. It came upon some of players they may be bots and a small group was put together to talk about it ( and only this). Soon enough a person in the group came across a glitch in the bots and the bots would essentially go all in pre or post flop depending on hand quality and glitch. These hands were sent to global, with names attached ( due to anon HH). The glitch was tested on at least 10 bots from all stakes. I believe it was concluded there was about 12+ bots. The bot owners eventually fixed the code after players were trying to abuse it over and over in plain daylight, which most members concluded was a bad idea. The bots wouldn’t play certain names for more than a hand and sit out (upgraded to a bum bot). With all this information being funneled to global the group sat and waited.
1a. How they handled the entire bot situation
Global at first stated their software is safe from bots and their security team is always monitoring etc etc. Essentially told them there are no bots. With more effort they launched an investigation after multiple people contacted them and multiple days past. The investigation took a really, really, long time. A few weeks to maybe a month+. During this time the group had made a decision not to tell anyone about the bots. It felt really unethical to not tell anyone, but at the same time there was plenty of reasons not to. The group would watch other regs and recs play these bots and almost always lose(breakeven or win a little at best). The group said it was absolutely the worst feeling ever to watch and something had to be done ASAP. Let’s be honest here Global, how big is your security team to not capture blatantly obvious bots? When the investigation concluded, an email was sent to players who lost a decent chunk of money to the bots and refunded a %. My guess is about 25% of what you lost to the bots but not sure since no hand tracking was allowed. It was essentially hush money and was not provided to people at the lower stakes ( to my knowledge) who may have lost lesser amounts. No public apology and no accountability from global. Who knows how long the bots would of crushed without the groups help. The group disbanded after the ordeal was done.
2.Global not being upfront with ability to change software to better player experience.
This will be filled with assumptions, but if you can correct me then please shine some light on the situation. I think global rents this software, therefore has almost no ability to make changes to it to better player experience. I have sent over 75+ emails about seat camping, seat scripts, and the lesser of evils, seat jumpers. Nothing was ever done, infinite table spawns and infinite seat campers destroyed the lobby. Many did envy that the PLO players could come to an agreement not to be like the salt of the earth NL players. At the peak of this, it was unbearable, as players from lower stakes would minimum buy in and take a seat for a chance to have a seat with rec players, and to be honest, almost every single one of those rec players have never been seen since. Great work guys! Global punished no one, absolutely no one for seat camping. Does anyone know if global can easily change software to better player experience or is it 3rd party owned?
4. The banning of HUDS and hand collection and then come to find a post with exactly that from a non-technical person building one.
I have been under the impression that all HUDS and all HH collection is against TOS. It was just lovely to find someone who says they do not have much experience building anything online was able to build one and track a large % of hands at 10-20. Yes, the player was banned after some time, but this is just one person, and the feeling that someone could do this at any stake with more experience is very probable. Also it was nice seeing just a chunk of rake collected, and knowing it wouldn’t of hurt too much to pay all the players affected by the bots( probably easier said than done).

5. Global needs to answer for the fact they made this decision a day after the DOJ made an announcement about money transfers.

6.What can be done to help support the community.
-If global is upfront about having actual control over the software, then maybe they can add a seat timer like ACR.
-Infinite table spawning isn’t a problem, seating scripts are and so is table camping. If you buy in, 1 min max at holding the seat unless a hand is played, if hands are played then normal timing out implemented. I emailed about seating scripts multiple times and their statement was to not punish players, but to make the software incapable of allowing scripts (paraphrased). Start banning people(24h,7d,30d,life), period.
-Warder made a comment about not having a sit out option in cash game. This is not realistic in this form, but maybe you have to earn a sitout option after a certain # of hands played?
-Global needs to make it friendlier for players starting tables, less rake for 2-3 handed play. Even if 10-20 is not brought back, battling HU at 5-10 is near impossible. I have noticed the site has already taken a hit in traffic since the loss of 10-20.
-Any suggestions the community has should be replied to from a global rep, insuring our voices are being heard.
-Don’t give donk4life his chat back. Even though he was a proponent against the people who made this all a problem, he took it too far and is way too toxic.
-We would like to hear back from global about all of this.

How do you think games get started? Fish do not just down and "wait". They want to play right away. It's thanks to regs who are playing heads-up who get the action started.

nice post. poker players catch flack for being moody and difficult to work with. it's nice to have the other side explained so well.

I think it is pretty obvious that the security is quite lacking.

I was given a refund of about $200 if I remember correctly. This was in March or April I believe but I cannot remember perfectly. At the time I was playing 12 tables of $200nl about 8-12 hours/day. The number they refunded felt like a random number they picked and refunded everyone.

Global needs to have better access to users systems files and folders like other sites which are built in C languages have. Some type of program you are required to download and run in the background while you play on GP that scans for bot files, assistance software etc. If it is not running you do not get access to tables.

Also, they should have an employee constantly in the chat of tables that can be called by any player in an instant. Having one employee always available to be called to tables and answer questions etc would be very helpful.

Lastly, they really should make an option to mute all players.

I never said I am non-technical. I just mentioned that I didn't have experience with JavaScript before. I was monitoring all the stakes as well.
I know at least one way how to do completely untraceable HUD right now.
There are more problems though. When I was digging through the client code, I've seen something that is much more dangerous.
There is a code that is happening when cards are dealt and you get an event for every card is dealt (including opponents). Basically you get a string of "9d" for every card, just in case of opponents cards you get " " empty string. I was debugging it and put some random string into the one that was sent for opponent card and it did show up in UI (obviously it wasn't a right card), but my point is: the way the code is written is making it very easily possible to send all the cards to specific users (specified on the server side) and these users will see all the cards. Flop and later street cards are sent later so I don't think there is a way to see what the runout will be. This code should be changed as there is no reason in the world you really need these events to be exist.

But as ProjectGlobal said they only rent the software so my guess is that their capabilities of changing it are very limited.

And the code looks like **** as well, not sure who wrote it, but I wouldn't hire these guys into my team. You can even find comments like "I have no idea why this is here, but whatever" in the code.

About the HUD - yes - there are several ways to do it. You could easily split monitor output and have it import on a new machine which uses a code you write from a Python's OpenCV module to capture the windows and display a HUD. This is just one way. It is not that hard to think of other ways as well.

About the card input - this is not a bug and all you did was modify the javascript in your DOM if I am understanding what you said correctly. Anybody that has more than one account and knowledge of programming could send cards to one user. Collusion is pretty identifiable though. I would be willing to put my bankroll on the fact that you couldn't get the hole cards of other users whom you do not know. Also, when you modify the DOM on your own machine, I am almost sure Global Poker knows about it. They have mutation observers in their code.

Regarding the card input my point is the the software is built in a way that making superusers existence very easy. I am talking company side superusers. All they need to do is to enable sending non empty strings to specific users (for example those "bots" that GlobalProject mentioned) and the software will display it as it is part of the software. And because you can't really track anything on the site (unless you are breaking TOS) it makes it super easy to spawn some superusers play 100-200 hands at high stakes and get some additional revenue for the company. Given that it's not even real money (on the paper) something like that won't even be federal offence (I might be wrong here). Obviously this is all speculations, but I did see some users in my db with unrealistically high win rates.

I didn't change DOM. I changed input to one of the functions (just as an example). Btw, I don't think they have MutationObservers in the code (at least I haven't seen it). They are using different tool to see how javascript looks at your side. https://www.fullstory.com/

If you open iInspector->Network (Chrome) you will see requests going to this site periodically. It's something that they started to do 3-4 months ago.

What am I missing? I have played on global for the past 3 months, and have been around the online poker world for 12+ years now, so have seen a ton of scripting/camping in my day. I have not seen 1 seating script while I have played here and also feel like I dont even have enough time to take a piss because I get kicked off tables so fast. How are people camping? Also the answers to all these problems are anonymous tables, thats it, thats the only answer. IE Ignitions

+1 on all of this. I made my complaints and tried to get several players removed that I knew were colluding/ bots/ seat scripting/ using hot keys and global always said everythings fine. I am a pre black friday player I think I would know when something fishy is going on. The problem is their security are not poker players. They need to make a security team with poker players. Get long time grinding regs to do security. Thats the problem its people with no poker experience. How was absolute poker super users caught= by poker players, acr bot rings= poker players. Poker stars plo collusion teams= poker players. I rest my case. Ya they rent their software so they can't fix all the issues with the site. They have the money to make their own software to stop a lot of the issues and i think in long run its better for their business to go that route instead of sticking with the woat software in online poker history. I couldn't even just simply do a BR challenge on it cause cashier always messed up not returning funds back.

I am not here to out anyone, as much as they deserve it. As for the table camping, it was way worse months ago, when something should have been done. That being said, this decision to shut down 10-20 within 24 hours of the DOJ ruling is just...yeah.

Can you explain why you think the 2knl tables getting shut down has to do with the UIGEA? They don't fall under the same laws.

I have also been around for a very long time and do not notice the seat scripting. If I click fast enough I usually get on the desired table.

I am sure there are fish who didn't want to sit down and wait, but there had to have been some who were just fine sitting down at a table where 2 or 3 players were not playing each other but started playing once the fish sat at the table.

I think you should be careful drawing such bright lines in the sand.

And as I stated, I checked on the games sometimes, I did not play in them, and have read a fair bit in the forums over the 2 years I have been on global. That is as far as my knowledge goes on the topic, I claim nothing more.

Global poker does use the software built by http://cubeia.com/

I don't know if they bought it outright and now tweak it themselves, rent it from cubeia, or have some other thing going.

I suspect they currently use the rent model and want to move to owning it themselves. I base this on a few facts

1. The jobs they are trying to hire for.
Perhaps they need more on the team, but I find it unlikely they want to continue renting while also hiring developers and graphic artists. Now they have the casinos they run as well, and maybe they are just building new slot machines. But I assume some of this trickles to Global as well.
https://vgw.co/careers/

2. Logos after server bounces.
A few months ago, there was a server crash and lots of tables got bounced. When the servers came up the Global logo on all of the tables disappeared and it was the cubiea logo instead. If they actually owned the software, I assume the first they they would do is a global (software pun intended) find and replace for that logo and put there stuff in.

3. The lack of firm commitments on changes to software.
Its almost like they can only submit tickets for problems, something I have suggested before, and no one has officially made any other statement. Its an argument from silence to be sure, but with everything else I think it points to the rent model.

Huds and hand collection are against TOS. No doubt. But does that mean no one is doing it?

Speed limit is 60 on the freeway where I live. Do you think anyone goes more than that speed?

As in all things, there is a cost/benefit thing happening with HUDs (and speeding as well). People will continue to attempt and be successful at making HUDs as long as those people believe they can make money at it and not get caught. Just like they speed because they get an advantage, with little perceived downside.

Anyone, and I mean anyone who tells you making HUDs and tracking hands is impossible is simply foolish. I can open 15 accounts, bring them in with different IPs and just open 10 tables, record the screen and develop software that pulls in the data with OCR (Optical Character Recognition) and there isn't any way they could find me. The question is not is it possible, but is it worth it.

For me. No it isn't worth it. But I play beer money stakes. If someone played higher and was motivated, I could see it.

So Global then has to make it seem not worth it. They have to make the risk outweigh the benefit. Temp bans is a good start, but they quickly need to start issuing perma bans for people, even on their first time, because it likely isn't their first time.

Global also needs to advertise who is cheating.

Ever wonder why the police leave their lights on AFTER they pull you over?

Safety of course for sure, but another aspect of it is advertising. It tells all of the other cars that pass "Don't be like this schmuck and get pulled over by speeding around here, we are watching"

In much the same way, Global should point out screen names of those who are cheating. Will they do this? Likely they won't. But I think it could go a long way in helping curb some of the appeal of breaking TOS.

Yeah the timing was very interesting for sure, but I don't know if I am ready to say they need to answer for why they brought down 10/20 when that announcement hit.

I think a much more likely theory (although I still don't believe this either) would be they dropped 10/20 on the same day not for fear of what was put out by the US legal system, but in hopes it would cover it up somewhat. It can't be good for a site for stakes to be taken away, that never looks good. So why not do it on a day when the press is concentrating on something else?

Another analogy... watch for press releases from tech companies on any day Apple releases a new product. These will almost always be negative things they need to put out and they know it likely won't be picked up by the tech press because they are too busy telling everyone about the world shaking iPhone XYZ+.

So all that to say, there is a LOT of reasons they could have dropped 10/20 when the government announcement hit, and it also could just be coincidence.

-1

Anonymous games are only a good idea if you trust the poker site to be able to detect 100% of the cheating on their own. There's never been a poker site that I could say I would completely trust to detect every form of cheating on their own, not even Stars. There is tons of crap that has happened in the Ignition/Bovada/Bodog games that will never be brought to light.

I found it coincidental as well re: Wire Act, but I don't know why that would be the straw in the camel's back for 10/20... but the Global Poker decision making team doesn't have all of my confidence at the moment and people are saying it's "not hard" to make tech to do real time analysis without being caught and we have a nonzero amount of proof from some random, so I guess whatever is possible.

While we are adding speculation to the mix there sure were a number of people that started hearing about rakeback being a VIP e-mail away for the few days leading up to the decision as well. I didn't bring it up before because I am not really in the market for conspiracy theories (given I am in the US in 2019) and the original reg I saw originally mention it isn't really at the top of my most trustworthy list. I do know that two regs got sent the rb% and who to e-mail. If that information went around like the bot stuff did, I have to imagine that I am not the only one that witnessed it, or maybe I am the only idiot paying an extra 5 figs/yr in rake. Shrug.

I should add that it would be really cool of Global to correct us or just say anything at all.

The stuffs written here are very depressing and discouraging for me who plays lower stake and trying to move up. For someone not using the hud , hh grabber and seat scripts, not sure if he will ever break into high stake even If he tries his best studying and playing lol. This is not how poker should be.

Good thing there is still mtt and live poker .