Just to be totally clear, I think we are still unaware of any rake change that happened unannounced.

New rake levels were instituted at new levels when new stakes were opened up. That would seem different than an unannounced rake change to me, which I agree, would be very bad if that happened.

???

Rake was changed unannounced. Well, unannounced for weeks until a member here pointed it out. The member happened to post in this page just a few post back. Unless you or someone else can point out an earlier thread making the announcement from an official rep ?

Read the first page of the Rake discussion thread.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...hread-1668787/

I am positive rake was increased unannounced, but this happened months ago and then the rep came in to confirm rake was increased and they did not have it listed on their site yet. I do not believe rake has been further increased since this happened months ago though.

Yep, this is the same conversation we are having above (or behind, it is a new page after all)

The rake change in May '17 was unannounced, and rightly met with scorn. But since that one, there hasn't been a increase in rake, which is why I pointed to your post and other people talking about recent changes.

There haven't been any recent changes to rake that have increased rake.

And I know, someone will say," May '17 is pretty recent". I would disagree when the site started in Jan '17. Its been around a little more than a year, so a change 8 months ago is quite some time back. MANY changes happened in that time frame. Still many others need to be done, but lots of others happened.

So to hopefully be completely clear, the rake did increase in May '17, and since then has gone down a little bit. In my book, that isn't recent, and we should be careful not to disparage Global for a mistake they made that long ago continuing until now. They are learning this process as they go. And that was especially true in May of last year.

With that said, my comment still stands that if the rake cap isn't being implemented correctly, we need to let Global know, and I know personally I am keeping an eye on it myself. I have seen the cap working well at $10/$20 from rail birding, and I haven't noticed anything at the stakes I play, but I am for sure being vigilant in the area myself. I encourage other players to also do the same.

Exactly my point. Although it appears I haven't explained my point very well. Pobody's nerfect I guess.

Lets just agree to disagree then. We all have different opinions on how a poker room should be run. I'm just glad my opinion is along the same lines as Global's.

Me either I guess as I was agreeing with you ha. The rake hasn’t increased in a few months though to my knowledge. The rake is still too high though but I’ve dropped this crusade as it is pointless


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See the bold. You say we are unaware of ANY rake change that happened unannounced.

That is 100 % incorrect. So I pointed it out and gave an example. The rest of the post is just us going in circles so I won't bother commenting on it too much. I will just repeat that the max rake cap use to be $3 across the board changes were made ... and current max rake cap is $5.50.

While some slight improvements where made in the rake for short handed play the rake paid in full ring games from 25/50 and up has stayed the same or increased.

Right. And my statement is not about the site in all of the history of it, but rather in reference to your original comment which seems to infer there was some recent rake increase. Which is why I engaged it, because there hasn't been one.

But then I also said, before, "The rake change in May '17 was unannounced, and rightly met with scorn."

I understand if you look at only the statement you quoted and nothing else I have said you can hold it up and say, "This isn't factually correct". But that is not actually a fair representation of the argument I have been making from the start.

And I agree we are going in circles here. But I still have one further question for you.

The the rep made the post about rake being 5% capped at $3 when the stakes above $1/$2 did not exist on Global. And guess what. Today, that rake at $1/$2 is still the same. In fact it has gone down due to the short handed cap adjustments.

Then Global introduced new stakes and established new rake caps at those stakes, leaving the old rake caps in place (i.e. they haven't changed). Now they did this and didn't tell anyone or post it anywhere, which isn't good. And they were criticized for it, and should have been.

Now you want to logically make the argument that them doing this is rake increasing? When the games they made the rake caps for didn't even exist at the time of the post by the rep?

In my opinion, that isn't a sound logical argument. If you want to say, "Global introduced new rakes at new levels and didn't tell us what those would be" I wouldn't have an issue with that. Or if you want to say, "Here are 10 hands in which Global is not applying the rake cap correctly" I also wouldn't have an issue with it, in fact I would support that fight.

But instead you are taking the tactic of saying, "See this means rake went up". And my point has always been, rake stayed the same at all of the stakes that were on Global at the time of the rep's post. Which is really the only thing we can hold them to. So your clear cut "Rake went up unannounced" statement is actually needing a lot more nuisance around it.

Finally, why do I keep beating this dead horse? Fair question. Glad you asked.

Because I am trying to help you.

I want Global to be the best it can be, and this 2+2 community to help it get that way. I personally think this thread (minus the statements I have taken issue with) is a very good example of how players can make sound logical arguments to the company they utilize, who owes them NOTHING. This is the piece that I think continues to be overlooked. Global owes no one here anything. You choose to play there, you choose to pay the rake, or deal with the bad tourney structure, or deal with the double BB issue, or deal with no huds, or deal with no hand history export, or deal with no accounting of how your session went that day................... and on and on the list goes. When you play on Global, your actions say, "I may not like some of the things going on here, but I am willing to put up with them"

Does that mean we should roll over and take it then? Absolutely not.

But what we do need to do is make sure the arguments we put forth are sound, logical, and completely factual. Because when you make blanket statements like "Rake went up" when in fact I have shown time and time again, this is not an accurate statement, and the facts show it is much more nuanced than your statement leads one to believe, you then shroud your statement, no matter how good it is, with an element of deception, be it intended or not.

I am telling you right now, the odds of them doing anything you want in this thread are low.

Why would you then take any risks of appearing to be deceptive?

Even if it was a mistake, it allows the hostile forces that are in charge which are the MBA accountants who cannot understand how in the world fees going down could actually make them more money, an easy way to say, "See that guy doesn't even have his facts straight, he should be ignored."

And I don't want that to happen. I don't want all of the hard work you have put into this thread, and your push back against people calling it rakeback and your due diligence you have shown, to all be wiped out.

This is why I have, and will continue to beat this horse.

Not everyone that has read or will read will follow / read every post. Your single comment directly says,

" Just to be totally clear, I think we are still unaware of any rake change that happened unannounced. "

Which is incorrect. And that needed to be pointed out for any readers who are skimming the subject or any viewers who come across the singular page.

So to clear things up.

We are aware of at least one instant in the past that rake was increased without an announcement. To the best of everyone's knowledge it hasn't happened "recently" although there is one case in which a user claims one of his pots was raked more then it should have been. It is not clear at this moment if there is another rake increase without an announcement or if it was a one time error or even an error on the posters part.

Are you sure the stakes above $1 / $2 weren't available ?

While the below don't specifically say when they were added it does show there were stakes above $1 / $2 around the time of the reps post.

here is my quote again:

"While I don't have a specific date as to when these larger stakes were added. Some were available on 05-30-2017 "

Source ( post 10 ) -- https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...hread-1668787/

This was the rake cap at 05-30-2017

Small blind Big blind Rake cap
$0.02 $0.04 $3.00
$0.05 $0.10 $3.00
$0.10 $0.20 $3.00
$0.25 $0.50 $3.00
$0.50 $1.00 $3.00
$1.00 $2.00 $3.00
$2.00 $4.00 $3.50
$3.00 $6.00 $4.00
$5.00 $10.00 $4.00
$10.00 $20.00 $5.50

What do you notice when you compare it to the current / past rake ?

I notice rake got better for limits that it is unlikely to even reach the rake threshold. I also notice some improvements in short handed rake.

I also notice a 50 cent increase in rake at the $5 / $10 level.

I also notice the once $3 max rake across board is no longer. It was increased and currently stands at a max of $5.50

While it is a fair point to say but some of those levels were not around. It is also a fair point to point out model of rake calculation they used was $3 max on ALL tables. That was their rake model. $3 at ALL tables. They changed this model and have every right to but that doesn't mean it didn't exist.



I agree with the above and the same goes the other way. We owe global nothing. We are the customers. They need us we don't need them. While I want them to succeed, I don't think I or anyone else aside from those invested in global poker feel the same level of wanting that as you do. And I don't mean that in a bad way.

I stopped playing at global before due to the glitches costing me money. I left for months. I came back and haven't notice the glitch again so decided to play on their site again. I named it the Ghost Glitch. I reported numerous other glitches to them as well.

I agree which is why I had to address your statement in an earlier post.


Rake did go up and it did go up unannounced. Was it recently. That depends on a persons view of recently. In either case it still happened. So saying rake went up unannounced is factual. While saying, " Just to be totally clear, I think we are still unaware of any rake change that happened unannounced ", is not.


If enough want it, it will happen. It is in there best interest to add something. So my belief is regardless of if this thread existed or not, It is likely some cash promo gets added in the future. I am just trying to get that future to be sooner rather then later.

Edit: Miss-read the last question

I wasn't trying to be deceptive. Rake structure and what we pay is important to the topic at hand and is the only reason I brought it up. Giving a cash players promo helps get us some of that rake paid back.

While with first glance GP is on pair with or slightly higher then standard it actually isn't the case.

How is that ?

Well, when looking at rake paid we should also consider other bonus we get at said site. If site A, B , C and D have the same rake struture and all but site D offer a depsit bonus / rake back ( there is that bad word again ) then site D rake is too high.

Site D is global.

I agree that was my quote, my point was I said in another post in this thread, that the rake had increased. And so my point was my post is taken out of context without the full picture. Sure people will read only a few posts and not get the full history, but then I can't stop that can I?

As far as the $1/$2 stakes being the highest stakes available, it is difficult to prove a negative. I did find one post where someone was requesting 10/20 and NL because they had it at PL in May '17. But that is all I could really find. I was hoping they made some official announcement from a rep that "new stakes were available" but to no avail. I have looked for around a half hour and couldn't track anything down where someone requested higher stakes either, which would mostly prove the stakes weren't available.

So my point still remains the same (although if someone can point to a post that proves otherwise I would be happy to accept that). Rake increase seems like the wrong term when the stakes the rake cap was more than $3 were not available at the time of the rep post.

It would be like a convenient store who advertised in a paper "All Candy Bars are $1!" Then you show up 6 months after the advertisement has run to find the new Jumbo Big size candy bar for $2 and pull out the ad and say "This is a false advertisement". If that candy bar wasn't offered, and the ad is from 6 months ago, I don't know that we can call their ad a lie.

With that said, the changes in rake, regardless if they took place at the time the new stakes were introduced or not, should have been disclosed. In my opinion, in an email to players. I don't even think a 2+2 email really satisfies disclosure, as we have to be a pretty small group of the overall Global player base.

But I think you also undermine your points thus far to go back to that post and say rake is now capped at $5.50... look they said $3, this is all unfair. We asked for rakeback, they gave us rake increases. Which, correct me if I am wrong, the heart of what we are really debating.

I am in agreement with you as well, we players also owe Global nothing. But then Global isn't asking us to change our business model, are they?

And as I said before, I support what you are trying to do. All I am trying to do is help you get what you are asking for. I don't want to see any ideas dismissed because they are misrepresenting the facts. I want to see the best ideas bubble to the top and be implemented. Will that be rakeback? Will it be a promo system? Will it be a bad beat jackpot? Will it be nothing? Anyone of those is possible, and I want the best one to win.

I know your point, that doesn't take away from your post being non factual and untrue as a standalone post. Which most well end up reading it as.


You made a definite statement. Point blank said that Global has never raised rake unannounced, which is a lie. I know and you know that your past post when put in context with that single statement of yours explains what you mean in greater detail. Most will not see the post that way. Which is why I had to point out, as is ,the post is incorrect.

What I believe you meant to say was something along the lines of ...

global in the past has raised the rake without an official announcement but to the best of our knowledge hasn't done so since.

For you second question...

Sure there is. You can post in a manner that takes into consideration someone hasn't followed all of your post leading up to the single post in question. ( this isn't me telling you how to post btw . .. I am just addressing your question )


I don't see how that proves no stakes above $1/$2 weren't available. Until you prove other wise I am going to lean towards some were. Not $10 / $20 but a level or two at least. I vaguely remember some higher stakes then $1 / $2 my first run at Global Poker months back.


It wouldn't be like that at all. Store advertisements have start and end dates located in the add and sometimes in small print on the advertisement in the store itself. But if you walk into a store and find an advertisement that doesn't have an end date on it, for all bars 99 cents and there is bar there for $2. Then that $2 bar is yours for $1 and the advertisement is then removed by management / worker as to not confuse future customers.

Agreed

You are wrong, I pointed out in my first explanation on my rake post what my intentions were. The rest is me addressing your post and questions.

I never once said this is unfair. Global offers a product and if I choose to buy that product at the prices they advertise then that is my decision. No-one is twisting my arm.

That doesn't mean I can't try and get a better "deal" so to speak.


Yes they are, they are asking us to change allot. We give them fiat money in return for gold chips and sweep cash. Global Poker whole model requires us to change how we play poker. It is similar to the poker clients that use only cryptocurrency. We are essentially using Global Pokers form of in house currency.

While the typical player at other sites deposits fiat cash and then plays with fiat cash and cashes out fiat cash. We deposit fiat cash for the purchase of gold chips that have no monitory value ( notice when you deposit the deposit link says purchase GOLD CHIPS .. sweeps cash is what we get for free when we purchase the play money ). We are then given sweeps cash for free in which if we build on can trade for fiat money in the cashout process.


+1 to all of that.

How are there multiple paragraphs even discussing this?

We are both sticklers for detail, obviously

I still don't think my point has really come across well, but that is okay, I think it is likely more my issue of not explaining things well, and I am pretty sure we could go back and forth for a long time, and neither one of us will really agree with the other, and that is okay.

I will just say I hope my overall point is taken, and I think it is. That when we ask for things, we are more likely to get a no when the people we are asking don't believe all of our points are valid. Regardless of your opinion on the topic, I have a hunch if you sat a Global rep down and said, "Remember that time you guys raised the rake?" They would stare at you and say, "We haven't done that." So any arguments you make to them, you should likely stay away from that point as it will overshadow your actual goals.

Best of luck, with that said, of seeing promos or something like that happen for cash players. I sincerely want you to help make Global a better place for everyone.

I think a system should be installed where we can up vote and
Downvote players for being good for games.
Someone giving lots of action upvote him
Someone short stacking and being a nit downvote
Someone being chatty and social upvote
Someone berating the fish down vote

Have to try and upgrade your rating and not be toxic to the games

Only unique votes would apply

Sure maybe regs will troll downvote best players, but that just
Makes the better players have to work harder to get up votes from
The fish.

This isn't about rewarding volume players with more money, but
About the site rewarding players for creating a better,
More fun and social environment and experience for
the recs who are both The pros and the sites true customers!

And there it is, the worst post I've ever seen. Go back to reddit man.

If you ever played on the everleaf network, they had something similar. It was a star system based on play, voted by the players. If you thought a player was exceptionally good you could vote 5 stars --- 1 if you thought the player was bad.

I remember going from 1 star to 5 back to 2 in a single session.

If they do kick back in cash games you guys are just asking for more regs to join that you wont be able to beat and going to lose money on the table over time. Its -ev. Regs are already starting to move over to it from tough sites like acr. I think they should only do it for tournies. I think in cash can do a deposit bonus thats it. And their kick back is the weekly 5k tourney and daily 500 bonanza thing. Rather play with a bunch of fish then bring in rake back causing solid grinders to sit all the tables.

This is actually a great idea. But the problem is people will also down vote guys for playing to good and 3b them and out playing them post flop making them lose money. It wont work cause people will just down vote guys taking their money.

They are already flooding the site since chicagojoey said not to play on acr they moved over to global anyways. Tables are full of regs now since joey showed some cheating on acr. It is already getting reg infested. Maybe at the lower levels in cash games its not but the low to midstakes is showing acr id names now and they are on several tables. The cash tables now are tight nitty regs and lp nits post flop with maybe a bad fish on a table instead of 2 or 3 of them. THe +ev in cash games is going down very quickly. Might be alright at micros but 100nl and higher full of nits.

Keep the fish coming.

The regs are coming regardless for some reason allot don't seem to understand that.

That is what we are after in this thread. A deposit bonus as you mentioned or any other form of promo / bonus that rewards the specific group of real cash players.

The bonanza games is a bonus for being an active member of global poker. You can get in the games while paying 0 rake. All you have to do is play their play money tables and the flops count towards the ticker.

It is a fun Idea that likely will amuse the rec players. But as you said it will be abused. Which is what I was trying to illustrate with the example of me going from 1 - 5 - 2 stars in a single session.

While the yes votes have over 50 % I am surprised it isn't ahead by a larger margin.

**** your rake go to ACR bud. PLENTY of rake to be won there.