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Old 02-11-2019, 03:34 PM   #1
coraje
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GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

Since the other thread got closed for getting off the rails, reposting as it now seems Global reps are responding in this forum. GlobalPokerCSKimbr, please respond on Global's official stance on seating scripts used on Global poker that target seat selection based on getting the optimal seat against recreational players.

Why are seating scripts allowed to exist on Global? They go against the ToS (depending on how it's interpreted) and it's clear they make game quality a lot worse at high stakes, as if you're not starting tables you're not able to get a seat during busier times.

Almost every other major poker site has made changes limiting the effectiveness of seating scripts or just outright banning them. Why are they allowed to exist on global when the only seating scripts available are through private parties, and they are infinitely more likely to include a HUD, which is also against what Global is trying to do? How does the ability of 8-15 people to run a seating script help out the ecosystem on Global? What would have to happen to get Global to look at this issue seriously?
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:46 PM   #2
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Re: GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

I'm referring to the following section in the Global ToS.

2.1.7. You shall not be involved in any fraudulent, collusive, fixing or other unlawful activity in relation to your or third parties’ participation in any of the Games and you shall not use any software-assisted methods or techniques (including but not limited to bots or poker-bots designed to play automatically) or hardware devices for your participation in any of the Games. We reserve the right to invalidate any participation in the event of such behaviour.


I have reported multiple people to global support, and each time I get the following canned response from the Global Poker support staff.
---------------
Thank you for your email.

We are in the process of evaluating solutions for seating scripts and similar issues.

It is our belief that such issues are best tackled via software changes that prevent or limit the activity in the first place, as opposed penalizing those who partake. In other words, treating the cause rather than the symptom.

Additionally, these issues are seen in a different light compared to prohibited activities such as collusion or bot use due to the fact that there is no unfair advantage gained in gameplay itself.

Unfortunately, it is far too early for us to reveal any further details. We want to take the time to thoroughly evaluate our options to ensure that the solution we put in place does not have any unforeseen negative impact on our players.

Our ultimate goal here is to maintain the health of our site's poker ecology while acting in the best interest of our players.
Best Regards,
-------------------

Kimberly, you mentioned in the other thread that all reports should go to the Global Game Integrity Team, but it is clear that they have done nothing with reports of people clearly breaking the ToS on your site over the past few months.

A lot of times public forums like this can help companies interact with their player base, and it would solve a lot of confusion if you would actually post Global's public stance on seating scripts. If you're not going to take action on people that are currently using seating scripts and other third-party applications, it would be nice to know if the development of a seating script is something players should look into. If Global doesn't permit seating scripts, it would be nice to know who in Global to send evidence to that will take the matter seriously, as your standard Game Integrity Team clearly does not.

Last edited by coraje; 02-11-2019 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:30 AM   #3
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Re: GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coraje View Post
---------------
Thank you for your email.

We are in the process of evaluating solutions for seating scripts and similar issues.

It is our belief that such issues are best tackled via software changes that prevent or limit the activity in the first place, as opposed penalizing those who partake. In other words, treating the cause rather than the symptom.
.
I opened this thread to post something snippy about coraje beating a dead horse after the last thread was locked. Turns out instead global support is literally giving the all-clear to use prohibited scripts on their site.

"We won't penalize those who break ToS." Is this for real? Holy ****, time to get the scripts out, boys!
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:05 AM   #4
StylePoints
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Re: GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

There may or may not be scripting going on but I think it's assumed just because a player jumps in two seconds after seat opens up that that person is scripting. I know I'll log on open all tables I can and watch and wait for someone to leave and quickly take that seat, and I'll do that til I have 4 tables.
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Old 02-12-2019, 02:49 AM   #5
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Re: GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

Instead of wasting energy by worrying about people who are playing high stakes and putting in effort toward something you don't have any proof of maybe you should get better at the game, so you don't have to watch other people gamble.

Seems like a silly thing to worry about if it doesn't affect you in the slightest.
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:40 PM   #6
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Re: GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

It's been 5 days since the original question was posed, and I don't think it's a complicated question to answer.

Are seating scripts allowed on Global? If they are, just say yes and confirm what the "Game Integrity Team" has told me multiple times via email where people are allowed to break Global ToS without repercussions, and where a group of 6-12 players has a huge edge in game selection, especially on a site that doesn't have waitlists.

If seating scripts are not permitted, what is the punishment for using seating scripts on Global and who can I forward evidence to in order to take action against the individuals using them? Is there a way to contact the head of the Global "Game Integrity Team" to hear his thoughts on this issue? Standard Global support has refused to take action for 3+ months, so hoping for something a bit more fruitful from you.

Last edited by coraje; 02-12-2019 at 01:05 PM.
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:42 PM   #7
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Re: GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoozedUpGambler View Post
Instead of wasting energy by worrying about people who are playing high stakes and putting in effort toward something you don't have any proof of maybe you should get better at the game, so you don't have to watch other people gamble.

Seems like a silly thing to worry about if it doesn't affect you in the slightest.
Hell yeah, I agree 100%. I think you're off on your assumptions, but I am completely down for a site that allows game selection based on skill and manual game selecting, and not just allowing people with seating scripts to get 99% of the seats that open up at full ring games and almost all the seats that open up after a recreational player joins a new table. Online poker sites and seating should be based on skill, not who can break the ToS every single session they've played over the past 6+ months.
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:00 PM   #8
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Re: GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StylePoints View Post
There may or may not be scripting going on but I think it's assumed just because a player jumps in two seconds after seat opens up that that person is scripting. I know I'll log on open all tables I can and watch and wait for someone to leave and quickly take that seat, and I'll do that til I have 4 tables.
Again, pardon for the assumption, but I'm not sure you have a lot of experience using seating scripts or experience with mid-high stakes Global Poker. It takes roughly .25 seconds for a human to respond to a visual stimulus if nothing else is happening. You have regulars that are playing 8-12 tables, involved with hands in progress, who are somehow able to "manually" scan other full in progress tables and join when an empty seat appears in less than .25 seconds despite playing multiple hands on multiple other tables with a join table success level of greater than 95% for each empty seat that appears. If you don't think there is a group of regs using a third party program to run a seating script on Global, you simply lack experience with seating scripts or don't play 3/6 and 5/10 on Global.

The seating script problem is worse on Global than other sites, as not having a waitlist just means anyone running a seating script is almost always guaranteed an empty seat over the vast majority of Global Regs that are not running a seating script. This makes it nearly impossible to join a table that already has a game going if you decide not to run an external program break Global's ToS.

For most 6 max games, it still sucks that people breaking Global's ToS are allowed to always get seats over people following the rules, but it's not game breaking as it's normally possible to get seats at new tables spawning. However, there are times during peak traffic, most notable Friday and Saturday nights, where 3+ people will be running seating scripts and new tables are almost impossible to join. I don't understand how this is fair, and I don't understand how Global Poker can just ignore this. If they allow seating scripts, let it be known that people can break the ToS and not be punished, so other people can develop third party programs and be on an equal playing level with them. If they don't allow them, make clear what the punishments are and who at Global will actually enforce players breaking the ToS.

Last edited by coraje; 02-12-2019 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 02-13-2019, 01:01 AM   #9
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Re: GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

Hi Kimberly! Have you had a chance to ask the Global Game Integrity team why they allow seating scripts? It's been around a week now, would appreciate an answer on why you're allowing people to break your ToS.
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Old 02-13-2019, 06:17 PM   #10
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Re: GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

It would be fine for someone else in the house to stare at screen and touchscreen the seats while you play on the mouse though right? Or is that multiple players on account
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Old 02-14-2019, 09:47 PM   #11
coraje
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Re: GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

Kimberly, what's the news on this? Did you ask the Global Game Integrity Team their official stance on seating scripts?
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Old 02-14-2019, 10:43 PM   #12
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Re: GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coraje View Post
I'm referring to the following section in the Global ToS.

2.1.7. You shall not be involved in any fraudulent, collusive, fixing or other unlawful activity in relation to your or third parties’ participation in any of the Games and you shall not use any software-assisted methods or techniques (including but not limited to bots or poker-bots designed to play automatically) or hardware devices for your participation in any of the Games. We reserve the right to invalidate any participation in the event of such behaviour.


I have reported multiple people to global support, and each time I get the following canned response from the Global Poker support staff.
---------------
Thank you for your email.

We are in the process of evaluating solutions for seating scripts and similar issues.

It is our belief that such issues are best tackled via software changes that prevent or limit the activity in the first place, as opposed penalizing those who partake. In other words, treating the cause rather than the symptom.

Additionally, these issues are seen in a different light compared to prohibited activities such as collusion or bot use due to the fact that there is no unfair advantage gained in gameplay itself.

Unfortunately, it is far too early for us to reveal any further details. We want to take the time to thoroughly evaluate our options to ensure that the solution we put in place does not have any unforeseen negative impact on our players.

Our ultimate goal here is to maintain the health of our site's poker ecology while acting in the best interest of our players.
Best Regards,
-------------------

Kimberly, you mentioned in the other thread that all reports should go to the Global Game Integrity Team, but it is clear that they have done nothing with reports of people clearly breaking the ToS on your site over the past few months.

A lot of times public forums like this can help companies interact with their player base, and it would solve a lot of confusion if you would actually post Global's public stance on seating scripts. If you're not going to take action on people that are currently using seating scripts and other third-party applications, it would be nice to know if the development of a seating script is something players should look into. If Global doesn't permit seating scripts, it would be nice to know who in Global to send evidence to that will take the matter seriously, as your standard Game Integrity Team clearly does not.
I legitimately have a hard time believing thats a real email from global customer support.
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Old 02-15-2019, 05:28 PM   #13
coraje
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Re: GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

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Originally Posted by MBrenneman View Post
I legitimately have a hard time believing thats a real email from global customer support.
So did I, but that is Global support's official stance. Still waiting for Kimberly to comment on why Global allows seating scripts, or if they don't allow them, who I can contact in order for Global to take action against the individuals using them.

Kimberly, you mentioned in the other thread "Naming and shaming players without proof are not permitted in this forum." Does this mean that using seating scripts are indeed breaking Global ToS, and naming people breaking the rules is against the rules of this subforum? Otherwise, why would you mention this in the thread if using a seating script isn't against ToS? Not too sound too conspiracy theorist, but are you personal friends with the people mentioned in the previous thread? I'm still baffled on how you're able to read threads that are asking for a one or two sentence reply and you're unable to provide input on Global's official 2+2 subforum.

Kimberly, again, can you please send the contact information of someone at Global that will actually take this seriously? The most blatant offenders have been named on both 2+2 and to your support in email, but Global support has still done absolutely nothing about the people that are breaking the ToS by running third-party programs on your site to provide unfair gameplay advantages.
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Old 02-15-2019, 07:08 PM   #14
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Re: GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

May as well add some names. Anyone know where Brad Pitt got his script from?

Last edited by GlobalPokerCSKimbr; 02-20-2019 at 03:25 AM.
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Old 02-15-2019, 07:48 PM   #15
coraje
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Re: GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by airfryer View Post
May as well add some names. Anyone know where Brad Pitt got his script from?
The last thread got closed after 4 people who are 100% using seating scripts and who have been previously reported to Global Support and didn't receive any penalties were named. If seating scripts are not illegal I'm not sure why it was a bad thing to "name and shame" according to Kimberly, but please keep player names out of this thread until Kimberly responds back with Global's official position on seating scripts, thank you.

Last edited by GlobalPokerCSKimbr; 02-20-2019 at 03:26 AM.
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Old 02-16-2019, 09:21 PM   #16
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Re: GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

Kimberly, any updates?
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Old 02-17-2019, 04:58 PM   #17
coraje
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Re: GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

Another day, and the same group of players blatantly using seating scripts. Kimberly, can you provide an official response on why this is allowed, or if it's not allowed, who I can contact that will actually take action on Global's side?
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Old 02-17-2019, 05:51 PM   #18
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Re: GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

It’s allowed because global does not care to fix anything. They only respond to things that get a high amount of attention. Right Kimber?? My account has been frozen for over a week I haven’t had an email back for 4-5? Days now after. 3 emails Of mine have been left without a respond. Kimber doesn’t care to message me back on here even tho she makes posts on here everyday. What’s goibg on with my account?
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Old 02-19-2019, 01:15 AM   #19
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Re: GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

Finally got everything worked out with global today! While it did take a long time going back and forth through email. Everything was fair and They reactivated my account.
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Old 02-21-2019, 05:16 PM   #20
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GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

Try this OP, soon people will be making threads about you having a seating script.

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Old 02-21-2019, 07:15 PM   #21
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Re: GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

It's incredibly easy to distinguish people using third-party automated seating scripts vs people clicking fast for empty seats. If you're not able to do this, you either lack experience with online poker over the last 5 years with the rise of seating scripts, or you're one of the posters who are saying seating scripts don't exist on Global in order to protect your ToS breaking third-party programs.

For example, one reg that was mentioned in the other thread was able to join 27 of 28 possible full tables that had a seat open up and a recreational player still at the table despite >15 regs online battling for seats. Do you think this person is using a "mouse macro" or do you think this is normal behavior for someone playing 12+ tables, especially being able to join the new table while making river decisions on other tables in less than .1 seconds between the two actions? There are other tell-tale signs of using seating scripts as well, but since they're easy to program out of a script, saving them until I hear back from Kimberly on Global's official stance on permitting third-party programs that automate seating selection, where hopefully a ban wave of 6-12 regulars will happen immediately after.
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Old 02-22-2019, 04:30 PM   #22
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Re: GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

Major props to Global Poker. I was quite worried after not reading a public response for 2 weeks, but most (all?) of the regs that have been using seating scripts have, at least temporarily, stopped. The reg who hit 27/28 possible full tables with a fish when an empty seat opened at a full table is now struggling to join new tables today while she is only currently playing 4-5 tables. She even completely missed a new table completing filling around a recreational player, something I don't think I've ever seen her seating script miss. This despite her and other regs using seating scripts in the previous thread simply calling her an "APM god". The other regs that were blatant offenders of using third-party seating script programs have also slowed down to a human pace, allowing for a much better and fairer game.

Great job Global for seeing a problem and taking action to stop it. While it looks like no permanent bans were handed out, the high stakes cash games are now in a much better place then they were 2 weeks ago, unless of course, you were one of the members of the small group using a private seating script. I now have a ton of faith that Global Poker will continue to strive to do the right thing when some of their members are cheating the system.
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Old 02-22-2019, 05:10 PM   #23
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Re: GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

Even better than I thought it would be. After posting about having "superior APM" and to get better at clicking tables on the last thread, the same person who hit 27/28 empty seats at full tables during a session took more than 2 orbits to join the last seat at a table with a huge recreational player despite playing less than half his normal volume of tables. God bless you Global for scaring these cheaters.
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Old 02-22-2019, 09:27 PM   #24
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Re: GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

thank you for your persistence.
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Old 02-23-2019, 01:24 AM   #25
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Re: GlobalPokerCSKimbr, What Is Global's Official Stance On Seating Scripts?

+1 Trying to help improve game integrity without the open support of a site and in the face of vocal detractors is usually a thankless job and can even seem futile at times. Props to you coraje.
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