No

@ChipPyles (great username, by the way) very unnecessary in my opinion. In a best case scenario, the people who are convinced it is rigged against them will still say “well of course they put the fair deck in on the public table for everyone to see, they only rig it against me because I just withdrew / they know I’m liable to deposit again / the world hates me etc etc”

Another interesting note would be...if you are assuming that cards are going to be dealt to 6 computers, and there will be no betting/folding, and then the board runs out and one computer player “wins”, that means that hands like 92 or 73 are going to win at showdown, where most players will fold preflop.


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It's entirely possible that the world does, in fact, hate them.

True. But that doesn't really matter. It would still be data that could be analyzed to show that each hand realized it's EV, and that the distributions were as expected (AA showed up how many times it should, JTs showed up how often it should, sets showed up in the flop how often they should, straights showed up... etc etc)

You and Rutledge have a valid point that people could still claim the simulation was rigged. But, GP could always point to this simulation on their home page as a way of assuaging new depositors who have reservations rather than a way of trying to sway the true rigged-theory zealots.

They have also posted the certification to their RNG. It doesn’t matter. People are going to complain no matter what. No reason for the site to spend time, money, and energy to “quell the riggie noise” when it wouldn’t even accomplish that anyways.

Edit: do you believe there are people that aren’t depositing/registering for an account because they believe this site’s RNG to be rigged?

My understanding from reading the main “is OLP rigged” super thread is that people have suspicions of EVERY site being rigged . Some people believe pokerstars is rigged. Other people don’t think pokerstars is rigged, but is convinced 888 is doing something funny. Other people will tell you that PartyPoker is the only site they are losing on in 2018 so that must have a non-fair RNG. I have even read in the “most obscure thinking you’ve heard at a live table” that a player was saying that he plays at casino B Instead of casino A because the shuffling machines don’t give him good cards at casino A!

There is a reason all of the rigged threads are the ones with the most pages. This is never going to end. No reason for the site to spend money and man power for a VERY small return

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This is an excellent statement regarding why poker can be played professionally as a skill based game. This statement is truth on every online site and live poker venue. It's not the site or venue "allowing them to have occasional wins" however, it's probability theory. Getting your money in bad is different from getting it in with 0% equity (which is often difficult to do). If you get in KK vs AA preflop you will still win roughly 1 time in 5. If you do this 4 times in a row and suck out all 4, the AA may naturally feel like (it's rigged, they are doom switched because they cashed out last week, the poker gods hate them, whatever) when in fact this is not some impossible sequence of events. Get these hands in over 1 million trials however, and while you will find numerous sequences of the KK winning 4 in a row, over the 1M sample as a whole the AA is still going to have won about 800K of them.

Maybe? I dunno.

I imagine a percentage of the FB users who are interested by the ads will hit google to see what GP is all about and if it is a safe place to play. Some of those will run into riggie conspiracies and decide against.

The first page of a google search shows up with scam and fraud alerts fwiw.

good post, and i agree. A simple way to put it and an old timer saying is "poker = chess + luck". chess is not played at high stakes professionally and the reason is the 0% equity spots that can be found and created in that game, luck won't "allow them to have occasional wins" like it will i poker.

Fair. If we want to deep dive into this conversation...I suppose we could classify potential players that aren’t playing due to afraid of non fair games into 2 categories:

1. Person believes ALL internet poker rooms are rigged/non-fair

2. Person believes that this particular site is rigged/non-fair, but believes other US facing sites are fair, and will play there instead

Most likely, nothing will be done to get person #1. So we will exclude them.

As for group #2...are you advocating to do some sort of control-study (with only computers at the table, hole cards up, etc etc) as well as someone at the site doing a statistical analysis afterwards in order to determine that the proper card distribution is occurring, and hands are realizing their equity etc etc? Do you think that this analysis will convince anyone that wasn’t convinced by the site’s RNG certification?

Would you be willing to let the site stop their promos, increase their rake, or halt any other improvements that are currently being worked on by the company in order for them to provide time/money to do this? Do you think the current players that the site will probably lose during this process will outweigh the new players that the site may gain by a successful analysis?

Edit: after running a successful analysis, what do you say to the people who:

A - believe that the site only put a fair RNG up for the public table, but still had a rigged RNG in the real games?

B - believe that the site would be lying about their analysis results (since the control table will probably run non-stop for say, 10 days, and of course no one is going to watch the WHOLE thing, so they can lie and say whatever they want, right?)

C - still believe it’s rigged because my AA lost to K7 cuz he hit a straight on the river!


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Nope. Not even close.

There are more categories than this (not sure this fact is germane though).


First half, yes. Second half, no. I wasn't thinking that GP would analyze the data. They would just make it publicly available for anyone that wanted to analyze it. My assumption is that there would be people in the poker community who are interested enough to tackle it.


No, I wouldn't advocate pursuing this project if it meant putting a halt to marketing. I think this is a false dilemma, though, as I'm assuming that it wouldn't take a lot of resources to conduct the control.

Another thought just occurred to me. In order to conduct the study, GP would need to code bots that could work on the GP site. Do we really want those to exist? (I'm assuming they don't).


Invite them to my home game?

Although I’m not sure how much resources this would actually be to implement, I have a feeling it would be more than you think. Throw in all of the bad media / questions about this project (why is this site pursuing this project? None of the other sites are doing a project like this? Did something bad happen that would lead a company to pursue a project like this?) and it may lead to more bad than good.





Yeah, after reflecting, if this theoretical study were to occur, I’m assuming one of the dominos that would fall after this would be people nervous about “super user” accounts - and this would already be able to be done and shown in the public eye (if this project were to occur), so I would imagine now THIS would make people nervous.


It seems curious to me that you want to do this experiment, accepting that it won’t affect anybody that was nonplussed by the RNG certificate, and then when it is over and people are still claiming rigged, you basically say “meh, nothing to convince you guys otherwise”. Not quite sure who you are catering the experiment too.

——————

I like that you are looking for an out of the box solution to help everyone be comfortable with this situation. Practically, it’s not gonna happen. The thread titled “THE GREAT ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED” thread is a ridiculously long thread for a reason: people are going to lose hands as a big favorite, and be ready throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. Ironically, this illogical thought process from opposing players is what makes Poker games profitable (assuming you are using good/logical strategies)

PS - I learned a new word today. Germane




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This, this, this!

Perhaps a partial list of the different rig theories would help demonstrate the futility of this latest project idea...

ROT IN HELL WITH MASON YOU KOOL-AID DRINKING TOADS.

Hey, I did say it was a crazy idea to start with. :-)

This thread just keeps evolving into more and more dumb. Good reads.

Entropy increases in online forums at a faster rate than anywhere else in the known universe.

I've played on a number of shady sites. Bots, collusion, fake Chinese "whales" etc etc. To say the least, I always have my eye out for any suspect bull****. I think both sides have a little bit of truth here.

There are bad players on this site. That's true. That means there will be more bad beats. That sort of explains away the random odd fish that sucks out. However, it doesn't explain some of the odd behavior from some of the regs.

Why are there regs playing 6+ tables that never top up or reload no matter how short their stack gets? Especially since there's no rakeback / rake race like on acr. Red flag. How are other multi tabling "regs" able to keep playing when they flat 3bets out of position with 59s and call twice on really bad boards? Red flag. There are other regs who make equally bad plays in 3bet pots for stacks which is... boggling. These aren't cheeseburger stakes either.

I don't ever remember seeing such odd and poor play from other regs on any other site besides this one. Really weird to say the least.

that actually sounds great

Its not just great. It's almost too good to be true, and you know how that saying goes.

Learn to play. I haven’t had a losing session on this site yet. Seems the problem is you.


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sounds legit

You have no idea what I'm saying you do. I'm not basing my views on my results with the site. It has to do with playing with regs on numerous sites and knowing what's within range.

OK This is the Deal as I understand it.
at the start of every hand a winner is selected no matter what cards are shown if that person stays in the game til the end they will be the winner. If they fold, it selects another person at random to be the winner an so on til the cards hit the flop then they make the cards on the board match up to the winners cards so they will win if the stay in the hand is this right? if this continues til only one is left they win by default. Isn't that why AA and AK and QQ etc.. raised 5 times the blinds or goes all in then the brave souls with 93s calls the bet and because he is still in it shows cards on the flop like 9,3,10 turn K, river 9 so that he wins. that hand. then so on and so forth until you get to the money and are knocked out in what ever order and that's you award. So its truly not anything like real poker but they make it look that way.

Yes that's correct if you feel it's your time, shove all in with any 2. Gl

Not sure if you are just trolling here, and if so, well played... but if all of this is true, why would they have the RNG certified? Seems like a waste of money.

With that said, if you are looking for a better detailed explanation of why your theory has other flaws, dig back in this very thread. This idea has appeared before, and was explained away before. Whether you choose to believe it or not is another thing entirely.