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Old 05-25-2017, 01:24 PM   #101
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

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Originally Posted by weez_latb View Post
Totally, and to clarify, I wasn't saying I thought Illusive is cheating. I was saying that if their theory were correct, his style of play would benefit.
This

I wasn't saying he was cheating but he does shove and pots it up almost every hand he is in which is what I was referring to.
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Old 05-25-2017, 01:33 PM   #102
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

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All you rigtards who figured out the system go exploit the **** out of it then and get rich. I already said I'd challenge that dumbass squid to a heads up match giving him 10% of any of my winnings plus I'd pay for rake at any stake and he denied me. He doesn't even believe in this and he's spewing about. My heads up challenge stands for any of you rigtards.
So how many hands heads up would it take to convince you? 50,000.or.more? Heads up wouldn't show anything and it's not that it is rigged poker. MY CLAIM is that it isn't even poker but a sweepstakes drawing. Global poker is who claims it is a sweepstakes. Look at the very first post on how it works.

GLOBAL POKER SWEEPSTAKES

Just to clarify you are saying that they call it a sweepstakes just to get around depositing directly? That the game they run is legit? This would of stopped Black Friday from happening lol.

They follow all of the sweepstakes laws that I posted. You think they follow all.of them except for the one about game of skill?

As was mentioned before why would a publicly traded company do.that?
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Old 05-25-2017, 01:48 PM   #103
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

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Originally Posted by GOLDNSQUID View Post
So how many hands heads up would it take to convince you? 50,000.or.more? Heads up wouldn't show anything and it's not that it is rigged poker. MY CLAIM is that it isn't even poker but a sweepstakes drawing. Global poker is who claims it is a sweepstakes. Look at the very first post on how it works.

GLOBAL POKER SWEEPSTAKES

Just to clarify you are saying that they call it a sweepstakes just to get around depositing directly? That the game they run is legit? This would of stopped Black Friday from happening lol.

They follow all of the sweepstakes laws that I posted. You think they follow all.of them except for the one about game of skill?

As was mentioned before why would a publicly traded company do.that?
I mean I'll play as many hands as you want. This is +EV for you if this isn't a game of skill then...don't see how you can't comprehend this.
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Old 05-25-2017, 02:01 PM   #104
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

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Originally Posted by a dewd View Post
There is a lot of action on the site, but I tend to believe it is more Zynga poker players than anything else.

I would say consider that the prior chief at William Hill is the chairman and they did take public investor's money. If there is any shady business, someone with decades long experience as an executive and investment banker will be going to prison for fraud. It just doesn't make sense that he would risk that kind of downside at this point in his life for a couple of bucks. Anyone with 30+ years in the investment business is very well off. The risk just doesn't make any logical sense.

Look up Nigel Blythe-Tinker, he is the chairman.
I used to work for WH before and though I enjoyed my tenure there, the few months I've been an employee for VGW has been truly awesome. We're almost 200 people strong and it's not even the end of the year yet. We're doing everything we can to meet our regulators' strict requirements part of which is the RNG certification from a third party.

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Old 05-25-2017, 02:04 PM   #105
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

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Funny how Global continues to ignore this thread and yet nobody thinks it's suspicious at all.
I'd rather help people with their cash out requests than feed the trolls.
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Old 05-25-2017, 02:10 PM   #106
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

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I'd rather help people with their cash out requests than feed the trolls.
Everyone who comments isn't a troll. There are legitimate concerns here that VGW, Global and yourself don't have definitive answers for. Helping people cash out is great but I'm certain these negative threads aren't going to help business.
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Old 05-25-2017, 02:22 PM   #107
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

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Originally Posted by GlobalPokerCSKimbr View Post
We're doing everything we can to meet our regulators' strict requirements part of which is the RNG certification from a third party.


Comments on not having RNG certification and then shows via GIF how the RNG is currently set up.
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Old 05-25-2017, 02:43 PM   #108
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

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Originally Posted by IWishIWas View Post
Comments on not having RNG certification and then shows via GIF how the RNG is currently set up.
Tells me that not everybody who comments here is a troll but inadvertently proves that he's one. Google Cubeia software. We're not the only site using this.
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Old 05-25-2017, 03:20 PM   #109
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

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Originally Posted by GlobalPokerCSKimbr View Post
Tells me that not everybody who comments here is a troll but inadvertently proves that he's one. Google Cubeia software. We're not the only site using this.

Clarify sweepstakes model please
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Old 05-25-2017, 03:29 PM   #110
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

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Originally Posted by GlobalPokerCSKimbr View Post
Tells me that not everybody who comments here is a troll but inadvertently proves that he's one. Google Cubeia software. We're not the only site using this.
You posted the video not me...

I'm raising valid points. None of which you addressed. You simply called me a troll. I'm aware of Cubeia software and played on the software before Global.

It's incredible that VGW is allowed to operate this site with software that isn't certified. Even if you do get it certified that doesn't mean any changes weren't made to it along the way.

I get that you are a service rep and probably don't have much involvement in day to day activity or legality of the site but why should players feel safe playing on your site. Simply because Paypal approved VGW for payments?

While I'm only an accountant and not a lawyer I have a friend who deals heavily with sweepstakes law and he believes the interpretation of sweepstakes law you guys are using is wrong and that it should not be legal. You are continuing to operate based on interpretation of the law from your attorneys and with no certification on your RNG.

Last edited by IWishIWas; 05-25-2017 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 05-25-2017, 03:39 PM   #111
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

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Originally Posted by GOLDNSQUID View Post
....Just to clarify you are saying that they call it a sweepstakes just to get around depositing directly? That the game they run is legit? This would of stopped Black Friday from happening lol.

They follow all of the sweepstakes laws that I posted. You think they follow all.of them except for the one about game of skill?

As was mentioned before why would a publicly traded company do.that?
No, not saying it is to get around a deposit. Their business plan specifically targets the US player base. It is using a loophole to get around the online gambling 'ban'. Black Friday happened, legal argument, because the networks were running an operation that is deemed illegal in the most of the States and in violation of the federal wire act. The actual reason was due to the amount of money that was not being taxed and the difficulty in finding it via audit. The govt does not care one stitch about a single citizen, only what feeds the coffers.

There are some, such as yourself, that argue unusual play/variance at Global Poker. It is just a sense or feeling that you have, not being sarcastic/disrespectful to the opinion, but there is no real specific proof. On the other side of the argument, you have a company that voluntarily offers transparency to a multitude of regulatory agencies. Any fraudulent activity means that long standing highly successful executives are going to prison. This is not a Lock or Full Flush type of entity. The individuals that are on the Board are jointly and separately responsible for any acts of fraud and the end result being a lengthy time in prison.

I am only weighing the appearance of something being different/askew against the signatures of those responsible being truthful under the penalty of law and opting to side with the belief that the management is not looking to be incarcerated.

On the flipside, if your argument turns out to be the truth...the Board of Directors has openly chose to commit an act of fraud knowing full well that they will be subject to annual audits. A Board that has some long standing members in the investment community. I just cannot reason that they have either been shysters their entire career or turned rogue in the twilight of their careers with a very high probability of getting caught.
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Old 05-25-2017, 03:48 PM   #112
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

". It is using a loophole to get around the online gambling 'ban"

What loophole?

Australian's don't automatically go to jail for violating US law.
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Old 05-25-2017, 04:18 PM   #113
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

No, the loophole is to offer it to US citizens. No one from PS, UB, etc...went to prison for doing business with US citizens. Using a sweepstakes model, similar to WPT having a monthly membership, the site is available to the US market. This is an intentional plan, obviously, but it fits inside of what is allowed in the eyes of big brother. Whether or not it is 100% RNG based, is another thing. Read page 94 of the link to their prospectus I posted and then the pages in the mid 60s. It states clearly the poker aspect is a game of skill and that would negate the idea that the winner is determined via sweepstakes drawing. I suppose it could be argued that all RNG action could be a form of sweepstakes if the 5 cards that were going to be on the board were found to be chosen in advance.

Australians will definitely go to prison if they present one business model to the regulators when in fact they are operating with a different one. That is fraud. When you take money from outside investors, the management, sales person, and B of D members are all personally responsible for the accuracy. If they say it is one thing knowing it is another, they will get locked up.

It isn't like the US government here is aware of the other US facing networks. If they wanted them shuttered, it would have happened. I don't believe they would have much real interest in VGW happenings, either. There is also a 100% certainty that the local authorities and regulatory bodies have an interest in VGW and its integrity.

I cannot provide specific proof that it is legit as you could not provide proof it isn't. I just opt to believe management doesn't want to go to jail. If they were fully private and resided in all off-shore havens....that would be an entire different thing in my eyes. Perhaps blind faith and 20 years as an investment banker, I know the aggravation it is to be under public scrutiny and I also know the downside they face. I faced equal downside if I did not do my own due diligence to prove I acted in the best interest. I've dealt with SEC audits as an annual pain in the azz. They require so much documentation for claims it is ridiculous. Based on my experience, there is zero chance I would willingly entertain an act that is likely to be found out.

I base my belief that they are by and large honest due to the filings in Australia by VGW.
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Old 05-25-2017, 04:19 PM   #114
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

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Originally Posted by GOLDNSQUID View Post
". It is using a loophole to get around the online gambling 'ban"

What loophole?

Australian's don't automatically go to jail for violating US law.
You have to be one of the dumbest humans on the planet. You all are either trolls or just plain dumb as ****. They have responded to what the sweepstakes model is and have said what they are doing related to their RNG. Offer still stands for heads up. You either don't believe what you are saying or don't like free money.
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Old 05-25-2017, 04:28 PM   #115
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

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You have to be one of the dumbest humans on the planet. You all are either trolls or just plain dumb as ****. They have responded to what the sweepstakes model is and have said what they are doing related to their RNG. Offer still stands for heads up. You either don't believe what you are saying or don't like free money.

They said they are working on getting their RNG certified. So no players should have any comfort that the RNG is working how a normal RNG should work.

You must have missed my comment before about your PG&G thread. For someone who quit online poker and couldn't beat any higher limit than 25c-50c you're somehow brave enough to challenge people heads up. Fun stuff. You'd have to be some elite crusher to beat a $3 cap rake at a 50NL Heads up table which is the highest Global offers. Paying rake for your opponent as well. Sound pretty dumb yourself.
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Old 05-25-2017, 04:32 PM   #116
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

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Originally Posted by IWishIWas View Post
They said they are working on getting their RNG certified. So no players should have any comfort that the RNG is working how a normal RNG should work.

You must have missed my comment before about your PG&G thread. For someone who quit online poker and couldn't beat any higher limit than 25c-50c you're somehow brave enough to challenge people heads up. Fun stuff. You'd have to be some elite crusher to beat a $3 cap rake at a 50NL Heads up table which is the highest Global offers. Paying rake for your opponent as well. Sound pretty dumb yourself.
Lol let's play then if you think the RNG is flawed. Must have reading comprehension issues if you don't think I was beating PLO200 by the time I ended my blog, but ok. Idk how I'm going to eat since I can't beat PLO50
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Old 05-25-2017, 05:06 PM   #117
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

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No, the loophole is to offer it to US citizens. No one from PS, UB, etc...went to prison for doing business with US citizens. Using a sweepstakes model, similar to WPT having a monthly membership, the site is available to the US market. This is an intentional plan, obviously, but it fits inside of what is allowed in the eyes of big brother. Whether or not it is 100% RNG based, is another thing. Read page 94 of the link to their prospectus I posted and then the pages in the mid 60s. It states clearly the poker aspect is a game of skill and that would negate the idea that the winner is determined via sweepstakes drawing. I suppose it could be argued that all RNG action could be a form of sweepstakes if the 5 cards that were going to be on the board were found to be chosen in advance.

Australians will definitely go to prison if they present one business model to the regulators when in fact they are operating with a different one. That is fraud. When you take money from outside investors, the management, sales person, and B of D members are all personally responsible for the accuracy. If they say it is one thing knowing it is another, they will get locked up.

It isn't like the US government here is aware of the other US facing networks. If they wanted them shuttered, it would have happened. I don't believe they would have much real interest in VGW happenings, either. There is also a 100% certainty that the local authorities and regulatory bodies have an interest in VGW and its integrity.

I cannot provide specific proof that it is legit as you could not provide proof it isn't. I just opt to believe management doesn't want to go to jail. If they were fully private and resided in all off-shore havens....that would be an entire different thing in my eyes. Perhaps blind faith and 20 years as an investment banker, I know the aggravation it is to be under public scrutiny and I also know the downside they face. I faced equal downside if I did not do my own due diligence to prove I acted in the best interest. I've dealt with SEC audits as an annual pain in the azz. They require so much documentation for claims it is ridiculous. Based on my experience, there is zero chance I would willingly entertain an act that is likely to be found out.

I base my belief that they are by and large honest due to the filings in Australia by VGW.


VGW Holdings Sweepstakes have both the elements
of prize and chance. The cash prizes offered through
the Chumba Casino have pecuniary value and chance
is involved as winners of the prizes are determined at
random by a computer algorithm.

This is right from their prospectus around page 60. The part about skill on page 90 is them identifying where they would like to go.

This is exactly how I said it was working which makes it's it sweepstakes and not poker.
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Old 05-25-2017, 05:12 PM   #118
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

The way I read that it relates to their sister site, Chumba, not Global.
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Old 05-25-2017, 05:25 PM   #119
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

You are correct GOLDNSQUID, but the poker was added after the date discussed in that part of the business plan. That is why you have to reference the second part. Prospectuses are a PIA to read. They are written in legalese with the intent to prevent lawsuits and over emphasize risks. The addition of the poker side is what the third party feasibility addresses and part of it is on page 94.

The part where they discuss poker, they refer to it as a game of skill. The part you quote specifically applies to Chumba Casino and that is separate from the poker side.

They license from Cubeia, a Swedish company. I did email them to ask about it and have not heard back yet. When I do, happy to share it here.

To be honest, there really may be no way to know until their next quarterly report.
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Old 05-25-2017, 05:26 PM   #120
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

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The way I read that it relates to their sister site, Chumba, not Global.
I agree and my point is that they ported the same thing over to poker which would make it legal as it is a sweepstakes. Which is their business model.

They dance around direct questions about it and the rep calling people trolls when asking real questions should give you some pause I would think. Her posting the random number generator gif was hilariously bad. They have repeatedly broken or made exceptions to their ToS.
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Old 05-25-2017, 05:26 PM   #121
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

Just to clear up some facts: The government defines a bet or wager as anything of value. Classifying US dollars as sweepstakes cash does not change anything and make this legal.

It is the actual act which is deemed legal or not. Poker is deemed illegal, but sweepstakes are deemed legal as it is defined as a complete game of chance. It does not matter the currency used in the eyes of the US government. If it is poker, it is illegal in the eyes of the US government no matter what form of currency is being using. The law specifically targets institutions processing payments for gambling web sites.

Global Poker is running Sweepstakes poker where the actual winner is determined at random based upon the number of participants in the sweepstakes, where actual participants are defined as the individuals contributing sweepstakes cash to a pot and actually see a flop. Potential winning players can withdraw from the sweepstakes voluntarily by folding their hand at any point during the contest changing the result of who actually wins.

There is a fee charged to play in the sweepstakes which they call the rake. The game is designed to look like a poker game to give participants the false sense they can control the outcome; however, they have no control unless they have the ability to force everyone else out of the sweepstakes prior to the conclusion of the contest. Sweepstakes contest with just two individuals give both participants a 50-50 chance to winning should they both complete the contest.

"In the event that a potential winner of a Sweepstakes/Prize Promotion prize is disqualified for any reason, Sponsor/Promoter may award the applicable prize to an alternate winner by random drawing from among all remaining eligible entries which will be independently verified."

The above quote comes directly from the Sweep Rules on Global Poker. Everything in the Sweep Rules classifies winning as a Prize - define as a prize for winning a contest. This quote proves this is a sweepstakes as they clearly state that in the event of a disqualification they will chose a winner at random. What real poker room (brick and mortar or online) would ever have a random drawing to determine a winner like this. They would not do this, they would award the disqualified prize in terms of actual results. Global Poker can not do this because they are not running actual poker games, they are running a sweepstakes and they have to fully comply with sweepstakes laws in order to operate in the US.

None of this information means that this Global Poker is doing anything wrong. They are offering a fun sweepstakes contest for individuals to engage in and there is still an opportunity for individuals to influence their ability to win the sweepstakes contest by getting other participants to voluntarily exit the contest. Think of it like an auction site - you outbid the other guy and you win, but if you both bid the same, then the outcome is determined at random.

The data I posted earlier is very limited, but given what data is released by Global Poker, there is limited data to analyze. In reviewing 500 hands where we identified the final outcome of the contest could be determined without the influence of any potential skill of a participant to voluntarily get participants out of the contest, we found 30 cases to review. In none of these 30 instances did a player with a 56% or greater statistical traditional poker chance of winning the hand actually win the hand. Only 3 players with a 55% chance of winning actually won. These means players with 60, 70, 80 or in 7 cases, 90% chance of winning ever win a hand. 21 of the 30 winners had a less than 30% chance of winning the hand following traditional poker odds meaning 21 times a player with a 70% or greater chance of winning actually lost. There were no winners in this sample size where a player had a significant poker advantage going in actually won. This is not poker variance as you would expect to see some winners in this range if this was actually real poker, but there were none. This is sweepstakes!

My point here is for all participants to understand the game they are playing. Those who understand do not want those who do not understand to figure this out as those who do not understand are completely exploitable by the players who know the real game. There are players on this site who clearly know the real game and clearly understand their odds of winning are not controlled by their hand but rather the randomness of the contest and their ability to get others to voluntarily exit the contest.

Those of you who want to stick their head in the sand and trust that corporate leaders and corporations would never put their careers/business in jeopardy need a history lesson in all of the fraudulent business practices conducted in the real world. It happens all the time with the goal to make themselves richer. It is call greed and it is why we all play poker. The only difference between your greed and theirs is that they know how to make money off greedy poker players.

BTW, there is a way to make a profit in the sweepstakes business, so by no means stop doing what you are doing - just understand what you are doing.

Also understand Global Poker is committing no crime. They have a legitimate business that can operate sweepstakes games in the US. They are doing so. They may be accused of deceiving the public into thinking this is real poker, but when you really examine their site; they never say real cash poker. They call it poker or sweeps poker. The poker is the actual Gold coin poker. The sweeps poker is the actual sweepstakes. In the terms of use, they refer to it as Global Poker Sweepstakes where Poker is just an adjective to describe the type of sweepstakes you are playing. They never refer to poker winnings or tournament winnings. They always refer to is it as a prize. See below quote from their Sweeps Rules

'The prize that can be won while playing a game will be stated in the game as indicated by the table pot or in the Tournament Win Table in the Lobby'
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Old 05-25-2017, 05:31 PM   #122
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

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You are correct GOLDNSQUID, but the poker was added after the date discussed in that part of the business plan. That is why you have to reference the second part. Prospectuses are a PIA to read. They are written in legalese with the intent to prevent lawsuits and over emphasize risks. The addition of the poker side is what the third party feasibility addresses and part of it is on page 94.

The part where they discuss poker, they refer to it as a game of skill. The part you quote specifically applies to Chumba Casino and that is separate from the poker side.

They license from Cubeia, a Swedish company. I did email them to ask about it and have not heard back yet. When I do, happy to share it here.

To be honest, there really may be no way to know until their next quarterly report.
Ya that is just where they talk about the US market and how they would like to attract those.players.
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Old 05-25-2017, 05:43 PM   #123
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

But do they except bitcoins?
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Old 05-25-2017, 05:47 PM   #124
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

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But do they except bitcoins?
Just PayPal
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Old 05-25-2017, 05:59 PM   #125
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re: Global Poker - RNG Discussion

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Ya that is just where they talk about the US market and how they would like to attract those.players.
Exactly.

It discusses the poker side as being a game of skill. Like I said, the only way you can be virtually assured of it is the next audited report. The discussion of poker will either be under the sweepstakes awards or as a game of skill.
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