Calling all MATH WIZARDS-has anyone calculated win rates necessary to break even at some of the smaller stakes offered on the site-50Nl, 100NL, etc.

Was recently listening to a podcast with a HSNL player discussing that with 25% rake back at some of these stakes it requires a 18bb/100 WR to break even. Pretty interesting-gotta be tough for the recs to turn a profit on here especially without RB. Any feedback greatly appreciated!

Your question doesn't make sense. Winrates are post-rake numbers, so a 0bb/100 winrate is breaking even, a positive winrate means you make money, and a negative one means you lose money.

Why are you being so pedantic? You really don't understand what he is saying? Relative to the field if you only win 18bb/100 you breakeven after the sites take. Even "Good" players don't do that, sites don't gaf though, quick cash grab.

This site is to be played "in a non-professional manner" according to T.O.S.

Everybody keeps trying to angle shoot these terms

When paypal was used there was enough $ flowing for many to beat the games, now it's going the way of other reg infested sites.

most if not all sharkscopes have flattened out when paypal disappeared.

This is simply not true. Lol.

what isn't true about his post?

i believe you need to win around 9-11 bb. I won around 6k at micros from 4nl to 50nl around 4.5k on global and 1.5k on acr. I had the same problem it was the rake was to much at micros i couldn't use a lag style the big pots would eat away at my roll after long session. i created a balanced low variance style to beat the rake so basically kept the pots smaller and took lower ev lines but also paid a lot less rake when sessions were over. Its kind of dumb we have to play sub optimal poker based on rake structure. My advice get a job and build a big enough roll so you can play midstakes and be able to take the higher ev lines. When rake structure hamstrings the way you want to play whats the point? Imo its bet to start around 200nl and up. Anything below= paying to much rake.

Rake, rake, rake... As long as my bankroll here is building and I'm cashing out $weeps prizes who cares? You're paying more rake and tips at a brick and morter anyways. Costs Global or any other online site (not just poker) a lot for hardware, software, infrastructure, rent, utilities, employees, advertising, insurance, Etc. Just pay the business that is providing you with a service and move on already.#Quitcherbitchin

At casinos 500nl and up or forget it and play deep.

I'm confuzzled. Since you only pay rake when you win a hand, why is it disadvantageous to play big pots?

Full disclosure: I'm an idiot.

100NL and below is around 10bb/100 in rake. It depends on your play style though, so roughly 8-11bb/100 is what you can expect to pay in rake. For most people, this means the games aren't beatable long term.

Medium sized pots are the worst, since you never hit the rake cap.



As you can see here, the nut worst stake is 50NL, as it is the same cap at 200NL. At 200NL, the bigger pots will be effectively raked less, as they go over the cap. At 50NL, nearly every pot will be raked at 5%, so it doesn't really matter.

TLDR: Don't play 50NL.

Thanks for the detailed response.

Is this not the exact same or better rate structure than other sites? (5% $3 cap)

Mostly, with a couple notable exceptions:

-Rake cap increases for stakes higher than 200nl, which is not true on any other site as far as I'm aware.

-Rake cap is abnormally high for short handed/heads up play. Which is problematic because that's how new tables get started, via heads up and short handed play.

Its not rake per player it rake per pot... The bigger pots you create the more rake comes out per pot. meaning you pay more rake per pot then someone who takes lower ev lines and creates smaller pots in the same 8 hr session.

Dont try to play like Tom Dwan at micros. You will pay way to much rake. He was 300 bb deep in high stakes cash games where rake is meaningless and hand values of 45s go way up being that deep. I seen him on cash game show before where they only allowed 100 bbs or lower and he played very tight. Commentators were making jokes saying is Dwan sick hes folding Ax and suited connectors wow. But no hes not super deep so his strategy changed to more a tight nitty style. I will try to find it and post it. He was pretty much non existent in the show. It was very boring but it was interesting to see how he adjusts based on his stack depth. People think he just this loosey goosey player but he will adjust to situation. And thats what i did at micros. I created a balanced small ball strat so i could beat the rake and profit. Its not like you have to build big pots against micro players they spazz out anyways even in small pots. I would bet like .20 into .60 cent flop with whatever 2 pair and they shove over the cb for 10 bucks with top pair or some open ender. These aren't the best players. You don't have to force big pots at micros.

thanks for the responses guys! been a 50NL uberrr grinder for the last couple years on global..might be time to move up stakes